Seperation of Church and State...! Jefferson style!

Southern Man said:
So the birth of a Savior is on par with Kwanza? :)
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That is not what I said. But celebrating the birth of Jesus is something that was "made up".

Do you have an arbitrary age of holidays before they can be allowed to have their decorations on a public property?
 
Southern Man said:
These other "holidays" are attacks on Christmas, a national holiday. Don't you realize that?
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That is nothing but paranoid bullshit. How is allowing other religions the same access to public grounds an "attack" on christianity?

How are any other religion's holidays an attack on anything?
 
Southern Man said:
These other "holidays" are attacks on Christmas, a national holiday. Don't you realize that?
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Because I don't see Christmas as a "Christian" holiday I don't see these other holidays as the "attacks on Christmas" that a lot of others do. I realize that when Kwanza was developed it was basically as an alternative to the Christmas celebration....it isn't the same now. You do realizee that when Christmas was developed it was in conjunction with the pagan Winter Solstice Celebrations as a Christian alternative to them.
 
The national holiday act doesn't mention Jesus:

An Act making the first Day of January, the twenty-fifth Day of December, the fourth Day of July, and Thanksgiving Day, Holidays, within the District of Columbia. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following days, to wit: The first day of January, commonly called New Year's day, the fourth day of July, the twenty-fifth day of December, commonly called Christmas Day, and any day appointed or recommended by the President of the United States as a day of public fast or thanksgiving, shall be holidays within the District of Columbia, and shall, for all purposes of presenting for payment or acceptance of the maturity and protest, and giving notice of the dishonor of bills of exchange, bank checks and promissory notes or other negotiable or commercial paper, be treated and considered as is the first day of the week, commonly called Sunday, and all notes, drafts, checks, or other commercial or negotiable paper falling due or maturing on either of said holidays shall be deemed as having matured on the day previous. APPROVED, June 28, 1870 by President Ulysses S. Grant.
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So why wound a town allow a Kwanza display?
 
Southern Man said:
The national holiday act doesn't mention Jesus:



So why wound a town allow a Kwanza display?
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When the town allows a nativity scene, they have opened themselves up to this.

If they put Santa Claus up, it would be a different matter. But you cannot possibly claim that having a nativity scene does not make it a religious display.
 
WinterBorn said:
So you are ok with the federal, state and local governments celebrating xmas, and not allowing another religion to place their religious decorations on display on public property as well?
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We've been doing it since the birth of the country well over 200 years ....

and just lately its unconstitutional ?....
 
leaningright said:
Because I don't see Christmas as a "Christian" holiday I don't see these other holidays as the "attacks on Christmas" that a lot of others do. I realize that when Kwanza was developed it was basically as an alternative to the Christmas celebration....it isn't the same now. You do realizee that when Christmas was developed it was in conjunction with the pagan Winter Solstice Celebrations as a Christian alternative to them.
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Christians commonly incorporated pagan rituals into their own to make converts and bring many cultures into their religion. Over time certain traditions became accepted, and since 1870 Christmas is a national holiday. Kwanza was designed to segregate cultures, and since its date was chosen to coincide near Christmas, was obviously chosen to attack it.
 
leaningright said:
Because I don't see Christmas as a "Christian" holiday I don't see these other holidays as the "attacks on Christmas" that a lot of others do. I realize that when Kwanza was developed it was basically as an alternative to the Christmas celebration....it isn't the same now. You do realizee that when Christmas was developed it was in conjunction with the pagan Winter Solstice Celebrations as a Christian alternative to them.
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when Christmas was developed it was in conjunction with the pagan Winter Solstice Celebrations as a Christian alternative to them.???

Thats just another attack on Christmas that you bought into....same as Kwanza.....
 
bravo said:
We've been doing it since the birth of the country well over 200 years ....

and just lately its unconstitutional ?....
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Christmas was primarily a religious holiday in 18th century Virginia, described by one colonist in 1774 as "the day set apart to remember the

Nativity of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." It was also, however, a festive occasion marked by visits between friends and relatives, parties, and public assemblies.
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http://www.mountvernon.org/visit/plan/index.cfm/pid/355/

:good4u:
 
bravo said:
We've been doing it since the birth of the country well over 200 years ....

and just lately its unconstitutional ?....
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Displays of one religion and excluding all others is unconstitutional, whether its been happening for 500 years or two weeks.
 
Southern Man said:
Christians commonly incorporated pagan rituals into their own to make converts and bring many cultures into their religion.
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And yet, in small towns all over the country, pagans are not allowed to put a display up on public properties next to the nativity scenes.
 
Southern Man said:
"...and public assemblies." Try and keep up, junior.
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Yes, we have established that they celebrated Christmas in public places for 200+ years.

We can also establish that pagans were burned as witches for hundreds of years.

But the argument now is whether or not it is unconstitutional for one religion to be allowed exclusive access to displays on public grounds.

It certainly is unconstitutional.
 
The thing that amazes me is that people whine about attacks on nativity scenes on public property, when it would be so simple to include other religions by allowing other displays.

But they demand that only their religion be allowed to do it. And then argue that it is perfectly constitutional to do so.
 
WinterBorn said:
The thing that amazes me is that people whine about attacks on nativity scenes on public property, when it would be so simple to include other religions by allowing other displays.

But they demand that only their religion be allowed to do it. And then argue that it is perfectly constitutional to do so.
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What I'd do is order inclusivity rather than exclusivity. Let everybody have a display, if the holiday is within a month of that time of year. I don't even care if the atheists try to insult everybody else with a silly sign (don't know what holiday they could possibly have, but heck let them have a sign anyway). Who is so weak in their belief that a silly insulting sign should be enough to shut it all off?
 
bravo said:
when Christmas was developed it was in conjunction with the pagan Winter Solstice Celebrations as a Christian alternative to them.???

Thats just another attack on Christmas that you bought into....same as Kwanza.....
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Missionaries used pagon symbols to teach about Christ and the gospel. The tree that pagans used was replaced with an evergreen to represent Christ's eternal nature and Him being the true "tree of life" as represented in the garden of Eden. This is where the beginning practice of Christmas in the Christian faith began.
 
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