SF: For future reference

Topspin said:
Duhla, you should really get past the first page of the buisness section of the local rag you read, cause your clueless.
Damo, very nicely put. Didn't realize you were that up on the economy.
Cypress is a transparent turbo-lib who is way left of moveon.
And would gloriously pump these numbers if they were a dems. Yes he did find those articles that tell a piece of the picture. That's the problem with morons, they look at a page and think they know the book.
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Cypress is a transparent turbo-lib who is way left of moveon.


I've done nothing but post fact after fact, graph after graph, of empirical data from an unimpeachable source - the U.S. Census Bureau.

If posting facts makes me a far lefty, I'll gladly wear that label. We know that Cons and their iraq fantasies treat facts like a vampire treats sunlight.

I let the facts guide my conclusions: The overall health of the middle class today - while not terrible by any means - is not trending in the right direction. It's getting harder and harder for the majority of average working americans to live the american dream. Especially, without sending both spouses out to work, and putting the kid in daycare (if they can afford it).

And I've been harsh on some of the clinton polcies throughout this thread.

I grew up in a country, where the promise was that the next generation would do better than the last, and that if you worked hard, became more productive, and contributed you would be rewarded.

The data and statisitcs I posted suggests that this american dream is not as easy to achieve as it once was. Now, the affluent, and the professional white collar upper middles classes may be having a grand time. But, I believe every american should be doing better.
 
uscitizen said:
1% I am supposed to get near 20% and I am retired any day I want to be :)

I was not speaking for me but for friends I saw have to delay retirement because of a market downutrn. One did not live long enough to retire...
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That is why they had their superfantastic government program to save them, with that massive return on investment of 1% they should have been set for life, right?

You want me to rely on that... No fricking way. After you geezers are done draining the system it won't even be available to me.

However, I would never only invest in the stocks. Centering all your money and relying on only one of them while not even drawing money out because you are afraid of paper loss is ridiculous.
 
Cypress said:
Cypress is a transparent turbo-lib who is way left of moveon.


I've done nothing but post fact after fact, graph after graph, of empirical data from an unimpeachable source - the U.S. Census Bureau.

If posting facts makes me a far lefty, I'll gladly wear that label. We know that Cons and their iraq fantasies treat facts like a vampire treats sunlight.

I let the facts guide my conclusions: The overall health of the middle class today - while not terrible by any means - is not trending in the right direction. It's getting harder and harder for the majority of average working americans to live the american dream. Especially, without sending both spouses out to work, and putting the kid in daycare (if they can afford it).

And I've been harsh on some of the clinton polcies throughout this thread.

I grew up in a country, where the promise was that the next generation would do better than the last, and that if you worked hard, became more productive, and contributed you would be rewarded.

The data and statisitcs I posted suggests that this american dream is not as easy to achieve as it once was. Now, the affluent, and the professional white collar upper middles classes may be having a grand time. But, I believe every american should be doing better.
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Who doesn't want all Americans to be doing better? I have not heard anyone say "well, I hope only 50% of Americans to do better."
 
a person needs x amont of dollars to live, if the value of your 401K drops too low how do you do it ? Draw down the value so that even when the market rises you will not have enough ? Yep that is the American way just live for today forget tomorrow...Also 401K's do not come with health ins like many retirement plans used to. and a few still do.
I thinkg the stress and dissapointment of not being able to fullfill his years of plans because of the market downturn may have accelerated my friends death.
 
the last sentence of Cypress's rant shows what a moron he is.
there are 8,000,000 millionaires and thousands of billionaires
80% of the millionaires are first generation.
The Castro wing of the dems which Cypress personifies in spades wants to believe the glass is half empty and you need a silver spoon at birth.
Which is lying to there party. Morons eat that shit up though.
 
Topspin said:
the last sentence of Cypress's rant shows what a moron he is.
there are 8,000,000 millionaires and thousands of billionaires
80% of the millionaires are first generation.
The Castro wing of the dems which Cypress personifies in spades wants to believe the glass is half empty and you need a silver spoon at birth.
Which is lying to there party. Morons eat that shit up though.
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I'm not worried about billionaires. I've got no problem with people earning a ton of money.

Billionaires and millionaires will always do fine, no matter who's in power - Dems or GOP. In fact, I think you agreed with me that, for a century, the stock market has traditionally done better with Dems.
 
uscitizen said:
a person needs x amont of dollars to live, if the value of your 401K drops too low how do you do it ? Draw down the value so that even when the market rises you will not have enough ? Yep that is the American way just live for today forget tomorrow...Also 401K's do not come with health ins like many retirement plans used to. and a few still do.
I thinkg the stress and dissapointment of not being able to fullfill his years of plans because of the market downturn may have accelerated my friends death.
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But your magical government program didn't save them? Or was it that they didn't want to lower their living standards so low?

Either way, they had both the government system you seem to want them all to rely on, as well as a 401K that they foolishly only put into the markets rather than investing in gold, etc. Did they have no Roth IRA? In that you can even invest in Real Estate as well as gold. In your 401K too if you buy the right things.

"I had this friend" is not evidence that the entire system collapsed, and they were certainly better off having some money in a 401K along with their SS money that they couldn't draw on because it wasn't enough. Your friend wanted to continue living exactly as they did before retirement and thus wouldn't accept the government safety web, nor smaller amounts from their 401K along with their safety net government account with that massive 1% return rate.

Seriously, they could have retired and lived better than well over half the world, they just wanted to continue to live as they did before retirement.
 
I did agree with you cy on the dems, I 100% behing Hill, Obama, Edwars etc.
I just dissagree with the old school dem tapes about how hard it is.
 
Darla said:
You don't have any right to call someone a "total moron" who has backed up every fucking thing they said on this thread, and you have backed up ZERO.

I don't know how SF is arguing with those last figures cypress put up, and I don't care. This is obviously at an impasse and should just be dropped.

But don't get the idea that someone can say "what a fucking moron" and everyone is like, oh yeah, they are a moron.

Because you just look like an ass.
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Actually with regards to this topic, Cypress IS a fucking moron. He continues to act as though the middle class has dropped since 1981. Which is quite obviously NOT the case.
 
Things he chooses to ignore.... because it makes him feel better....

1) The growth rate of GDP... was deliberately slowed to smooth out the volatility of the growth and attempt to maintain it at a sustainable rate. The economy has benefited from that. But he ignores this consistently.

2) Median income rose by 30% on average for ALL age groups and BOTH genders COMBINED. Yet he is now trying to argue that men are going down and women up and it is all do to both HAVING to work. Which again is bullshit, because many CHOOSE to work so as to have a greater lifestyle than if only one was working. It is also complete bullshit for the moron to claim that a 30% rise in purchasing power somehow makes the middle class worse off.
 
Superfreak said:
Actually with regards to this topic, Cypress IS a fucking moron. He continues to act as though the middle class has dropped since 1981. Which is quite obviously NOT the case.
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Again, it's not obvious to me, I think an impasse has been reached, and the whole thing should be dropped, but that's not my call. But my whole point was what you just said here. What's obvious to you, is about you. :)
 
Damocles said:
Those were articles, not "my canadian friend". One opinion piece exchanged for another.
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Well, maybe that wouldn't have been appropriate for yesterday then. But I just got a feeling like, I would be glad to have that at some point. I am known for being prescient, so... :)
 
Darla said:
Right, everything he posts "only tells a piece of the picture" and "is right, but doesn't tell the true story".

Do you know how much weasling it looks like has gone on in this thread? And from where I was sitting it wasn't coming from him.

I've never seen you post anything Top, that made me think you were of above-average intelligence. The reflection of yourself that you see, is not the same as the reflection you cast.
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The above is complete bullshit Darla... look at his latest attempt. The data I gave him on median income shows EVERYONE over 15. Everyone. It is most definitely listed in BOTH current dollars and inflation adjusted. Everything I referenced was the inflation adjusted portion.

Then he post two charts.... he claims one is not inflation adjusted based on the fact that it is showing percentage increases. But yet, once again, he fails to source the data so that we can check his assertation. The data I have provided is DIRECTLY linked back to the ACTUAL government website.

The second chart he posts may be in inflation adjusted dollars, but it cuts off in 1997.... right before the boom years of 1998-1999... when there was an increase in median income... how very fucking convenient for him.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/p10ar.html
 
Darla said:
Again, it's not obvious to me, I think an impasse has been reached, and the whole thing should be dropped, but that's not my call. But my whole point was what you just said here. What's obvious to you, is about you. :)
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Which is fine, if you wish to drop it. But then DROP it. You coming on here and defending that idiot just starts it all up again. It is OBVIOUS to anyone who reads the actual numbers and doesn't try to eyeball the numbers based on a chart.... or post charts that do not show the complete results... or post charts that start to segment the population based on gender, when the fucking argument was is the middle class AS A WHOLE doing better or worse since Reagan took office.
 
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