Should churches, synagogues & mosques etc. be taxed?

Should churches, synagogues & mosques etc. be taxed?


  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
I appreciate the tip.

I wonder why "Dixie" couldn't answer my request, since he made the statement.

I did answer you fucking retard! I swear, I have never seen anything like this, I post something, you basically interpret it to mean something totally different, and refuse to acknowledge a damn thing I post. It's like you are purposely playing dumb and pretending the words just don't exist!

The people who advocated taxing churches in the beginning, were Quakers, Angelics, and Congregational Christians, and their intention was, to secure more political power for the church. The idea was rejected by the founding fathers, who feared too much political power controlled by religious organizations. You can not have any "wall of separation" if you are taking tax money from them! What part of that are you failing to comprehend, pinheads? Once churches are invested in paying "their fair share" they will certainly exercise the rights taxation affords them. You morons may not think so, but this would be inevitable. You can't tax without representation, the Constitution doesn't allow it, the Supreme Court wouldn't allow it, and what you'd have, is Churches running government almost exclusively.
 
I did answer you fucking retard! I swear, I have never seen anything like this, I post something, you basically interpret it to mean something totally different, and refuse to acknowledge a damn thing I post. It's like you are purposely playing dumb and pretending the words just don't exist!

The people who advocated taxing churches in the beginning, were Quakers, Angelics, and Congregational Christians, and their intention was, to secure more political power for the church. The idea was rejected by the founding fathers, who feared too much political power controlled by religious organizations. You can not have any "wall of separation" if you are taking tax money from them! What part of that are you failing to comprehend, pinheads? Once churches are invested in paying "their fair share" they will certainly exercise the rights taxation affords them. You morons may not think so, but this would be inevitable. You can't tax without representation, the Constitution doesn't allow it, the Supreme Court wouldn't allow it, and what you'd have, is Churches running government almost exclusively.

Which of the other enumerated constitutional freedoms have been violated by being taxed?
 
Which of the other enumerated constitutional freedoms have been violated by being taxed?

What in the fuck are you even yammering about, retard? There are no "enumerated constitutional freedoms!" There are "enumerated powers" that We The People granted to government, and there are "inalienable rights" which were endowed to the people by the Creator. I never heard of "enumerated freedoms" before. Is that a Socialist concept?

None of our inalienable rights have ever been taxed, they would cease to be "inalienable" if that were ever the case! You see, dimwit, "inalienable" means it can't be removed, no matter what, even if you refused to pay a tax!
 
What in the fuck are you even yammering about, retard? There are no "enumerated constitutional freedoms!" There are "enumerated powers" that We The People granted to government, and there are "inalienable rights" which were endowed to the people by the Creator. I never heard of "enumerated freedoms" before. Is that a Socialist concept?

None of our inalienable rights have ever been taxed, they would cease to be "inalienable" if that were ever the case! You see, dimwit, "inalienable" means it can't be removed, no matter what, even if you refused to pay a tax!


"There are no "enumerated constitutional freedoms"?

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The Ninth Amendment (Amendment IX) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, addresses rights of the people that are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:US-GreatSeal-Obverse.svg" class="image" title="Great Seal of the United States"><img alt="Great Seal of the United States" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/US-GreatSeal-Obverse.svg/125px-US-GreatSeal-Obverse.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/be/US-GreatSeal-Obverse.svg/125px-US-GreatSeal-Obverse.svg.png

Perhaps you should inform these webmasters of your superior knowledge:

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/billofrights

United States Bill of Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Bill_of_Rights_Pg1of1_AC.jpg" class="image" title="United States Bill of Rights"><img alt="United States Bill of Rights" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Bill_of_Rights_Pg1of1_AC.jpg/190px-Bill_of_Rights_Pg1of1_AC.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/79/Bill_of_Rights_Pg1of1_AC.jpg/190px-Bill_of_Rights_Pg1of1_AC.jpg

It's a long list. Better get started.

Regarding your question about the concept. if I meet a Socialist, I'll inquire on your behalf.
 
Are you seriously this pathetically stupid?

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The "enumeration in the constitution" of "certain rights" (enumerated to government), shall not be construed to deny or disparage "others" (inalienable ones) retained by "the people" (...who have inalienable rights and enumerated some rights to the government.)

OUR rights are not enumerated, they are inalienable. The government is given enumerated powers by THE PEOPLE. To "enumerate" means to number and list specifically.... that's what we did with government, we numbered and listed specifically, which "rights" or "powers" they would have, and the 9th Amendment ensures these never infringe on our individual inalienable rights, which are endowed by the Creator.
 
Are you seriously this pathetically stupid?

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The "enumeration in the constitution" of "certain rights" (enumerated to government), shall not be construed to deny or disparage "others" (inalienable ones) retained by "the people" (...who have inalienable rights and enumerated some rights to the government.)

OUR rights are not enumerated, they are inalienable. The government is given enumerated powers by THE PEOPLE. To "enumerate" means to number and list specifically.... that's what we did with government, we numbered and listed specifically, which "rights" or "powers" they would have, and the 9th Amendment ensures these never infringe on our individual inalienable rights, which are endowed by the Creator.

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

So the Framers should not have used the language above, according to you?
 
"There are no "enumerated constitutional freedoms"?

"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

The Ninth Amendment (Amendment IX) to the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, addresses rights of the people that are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Perhaps you should inform these webmasters of your superior knowledge:

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/billofrights

United States Bill of Rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a long list. Better get started.

Regarding your question about the concept. if I meet a Socialist, I'll inquire on your behalf.
Now now, you said "enumerated freedoms", whereas the Constitution describes "enumerated rights". Let us keep our terms consistent so as not to cause confusion. ;)

But to answer: poll tax anyone? The right of franchise, though limited to a specific set of citizens, was none the less enumerated. Then some states decided they would further limit franchise through poll taxes and were (eventually) shot down. Afterward, to solidify the courts' decisions, the Constitution was amended to absolutely prohibit poll taxes.

It is those decisions shooting down poll taxes that, IMO, could, possibly, yield a blanket prohibition against any tax or fee against any constitutionally enumerated right.
 
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

So the Framers should not have used the language above, according to you?

If the framers had known an illiterate moron named Mojo was going to redefine it to mean something entirely different than what it meant, then... yes, they should have used different language.
 
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people" - Ninth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

So, explain what this means, will you, "Dixie"?

Did the Framers have an alternative meaning for "enumeration"?

Or was it "rights"?
 
Again... We do not have "enumerated" rights... we have "inalienable" rights! Our rights are endowed by the Creator, not numbered and specified. Our inalienable rights can never be enumerated, because there is no way to list them by importance, they are equal in their importance to the individual who possesses them. They are all inalienable, one is no more dispensable than another. In order for one to "enumerate" them, an inherent 'importance' would have to be assigned, and that simply can't be done with inalienable rights.

You are reading the words "enumerated rights" as it applies to the specific enumerated powers we granted to the federal government, not our individual inalienable rights.
 
Get a grip, Dixie. The term enumerated means that the right is specifically listed in the Constitution as a right. The right to keep and bear arms is an enumerated right because it is specifically listed in the Constitution as a right. The right to freedom of speech is an enumerated right. The right to a free press is an enumerated right. The right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizures is an enumerated right. The right to be secure against compulsion to testify against oneself is an enumerated right. The list goes on.

OTOH, the right to privacy is NOT an enumerated right - it took a court decision to recognize it as a right garnered under the 9th Amendment.
 
Liberals just don't like religion because churches tend to be against premartial sex, abortion, birth control, prostitution, gay rights, drugs, theory of overpopulation ect.
 
Again... We do not have "enumerated" rights... we have "inalienable" rights! Our rights are endowed by the Creator, not numbered and specified. Our inalienable rights can never be enumerated, because there is no way to list them by importance, they are equal in their importance to the individual who possesses them. They are all inalienable, one is no more dispensable than another. In order for one to "enumerate" them, an inherent 'importance' would have to be assigned, and that simply can't be done with inalienable rights.

You are reading the words "enumerated rights" as it applies to the specific enumerated powers we granted to the federal government, not our individual inalienable rights.

Amendment IX - The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people
 
Get a grip, Dixie. The term enumerated means that the right is specifically listed in the Constitution as a right. The right to keep and bear arms is an enumerated right because it is specifically listed in the Constitution as a right. The right to freedom of speech is an enumerated right. The right to a free press is an enumerated right. The right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizures is an enumerated right. The right to be secure against compulsion to testify against oneself is an enumerated right. The list goes on.

OTOH, the right to privacy is NOT an enumerated right - it took a court decision to recognize it as a right garnered under the 9th Amendment.

Certainly, in order for the Constitution to spell out our inalienable rights by law, they had to list them (or enumerate them). This is the Bill of Rights. However, the rights themselves, are not "enumerated" because they can't be.

You see, I happen to think this assertion from Mojo about "enumerated rights" cuts right to the heart of liberal vs. constitutional conservative philosophical difference. The Liberal believes our rights are not inalienable, and not endowed by any Creator, they are granted to us... enumerated, by the Constitution and the Supreme Court determines how these enumerated rights are doled out, on the basis of social importance. I believe we have inalienable rights, not enumerated, not listed in order of importance, or granted to me by government and the constitution, but endowed by my Creator and unable to be alienated by a government, by a court, or by a liberal pinhead who is looking for social justice.
 
Certainly, in order for the Constitution to spell out our inalienable rights by law, they had to list them (or enumerate them). This is the Bill of Rights. However, the rights themselves, are not "enumerated" because they can't be.

You see, I happen to think this assertion from Mojo about "enumerated rights" cuts right to the heart of liberal vs. constitutional conservative philosophical difference. The Liberal believes our rights are not inalienable, and not endowed by any Creator, they are granted to us... enumerated, by the Constitution and the Supreme Court determines how these enumerated rights are doled out, on the basis of social importance. I believe we have inalienable rights, not enumerated, not listed in order of importance, or granted to me by government and the constitution, but endowed by my Creator and unable to be alienated by a government, by a court, or by a liberal pinhead who is looking for social justice.
You can, of course, think what you want. But the fact is your concept of what is meant by the term enumerated is completely devoid of anything bearing to reality. The term enumerated has nothing to do with prioritization, doling out, or anything else you complain about. Enumerated means they are specifically listed within the Constitution. Nothing less, nothing more. If it is specifically mentioned in the Constitution, it is "enumerated". That applies to structure and powers as well as rights. (why do you think the term is applied to all concepts?)

There are certain structures of government which are enumerated. The houses of Congress, the President and veep, and SCOTUS with the rest of the federal appeals courts. And then there are positions which are granted, but not enumerated, such as the various posts - most of which were created much later - of the President's cabinet.

Just as powers of the government are enumerated, so are some (but not all) of our rights. The difference being the government is (supposed to be) limited to those powers enumerated, whereas our rights do not have any such limit. The 9th and 10th Amendments are polar opposites in intent. The 9th says that rights which are not enumerated still exist, (which, if I read you correctly, should satisfy your concern that rights are "doled out"). And at the other end, the 10th does the opposite for government by stating if the power is NOT enumerated, then it does NOT exist. (Which is, without a doubt, the most violated portion of our Constitution throughout our history.)

Now, a right which is traditionally considered to be "inalienable" can also be enumerated. In fact, in many cases the very reason for enumerating a right is BECAUSE the founders felt it was inalienable, and therefore bore specific mention in that document whose entire purpose is to protect our inalienable rights. And then there are those which the founders deemed essential to keep our inalienable rights. Free speech, press, RTKABA, etc. are essential to maintaining the inalienable right of Liberty.

In short, calling something enumerated in no way diminishes its status as an inalienable right. Your are, quite simply, way off base with your complaint on that.
 
In short, calling something enumerated in no way diminishes its status as an inalienable right. Your are, quite simply, way off base with your complaint on that.

Yes pinhead, let's keep this short, by all means. Our rights are endowed by our Creator, not "enumerated" by government of a piece of parchment. This is the difference between a constitutional conservative, and a pinhead liberal. You apparently lean towards the side of the pinhead liberal, and I am a constitutional conservative.

I already clarified that I understand our inalienable rights are 'enumerated' in text form, for the purposes of constructing a Constitution, I get that... haven't disputed that... but this does not mean the right itself is being enumerated to us by the Constitution. All of our inalienable rights are equivalent to each other, there is no way to adequately list them in any order of importance or relevance(i.e. to enumerate them), and really, no need to do so, other than to stipulate what they specifically are, in the context of the Constitution. It is a flagrant and gross misunderstanding of inalienable rights, to presume they are 'enumerated' by the constitution.

But putting this silly semantics game aside, even if you believe our rights are enumerable and determined by the constitution and not endowed by our Creator, the first and foremost right listed is freedom of religious exercise. This was the #1 main reason for us to declare independence in the first place. You see, we didn't believe the National Church should be telling us all how to live and what to do, and how to worship, how much tax we should pay, etc. Our founders realized that a Church or Government could not be relied upon to ensure our freedom and liberty, and the TRUTH is, there is only one source of our freedom and liberty, and that is our Creator. Our rights come from the Creator, we are endowed with those, regardless of any enumeration, regardless of anything man can ever write or pontificate. Inalienable!
 
Yes pinhead, let's keep this short, by all means. Our rights are endowed by our Creator, not "enumerated" by government of a piece of parchment. This is the difference between a constitutional conservative, and a pinhead liberal. You apparently lean towards the side of the pinhead liberal, and I am a constitutional conservative.

I already clarified that I understand our inalienable rights are 'enumerated' in text form, for the purposes of constructing a Constitution, I get that... haven't disputed that... but this does not mean the right itself is being enumerated to us by the Constitution. All of our inalienable rights are equivalent to each other, there is no way to adequately list them in any order of importance or relevance(i.e. to enumerate them), and really, no need to do so, other than to stipulate what they specifically are, in the context of the Constitution. It is a flagrant and gross misunderstanding of inalienable rights, to presume they are 'enumerated' by the constitution.

But putting this silly semantics game aside, even if you believe our rights are enumerable and determined by the constitution and not endowed by our Creator, the first and foremost right listed is freedom of religious exercise. This was the #1 main reason for us to declare independence in the first place. You see, we didn't believe the National Church should be telling us all how to live and what to do, and how to worship, how much tax we should pay, etc. Our founders realized that a Church or Government could not be relied upon to ensure our freedom and liberty, and the TRUTH is, there is only one source of our freedom and liberty, and that is our Creator. Our rights come from the Creator, we are endowed with those, regardless of any enumeration, regardless of anything man can ever write or pontificate. Inalienable!
Riiight.

You are, quite simply, ignorant beyond the words needed to describe. You still insist on completely misusing the term enumerated to mean prioritized. WRONG, nutrino breath.

Not once did I say the Constitution is what GIVES us our rights you vacuum skulled twit. Good lord, man, you bitch like a whiny teenager about Mojo not reading what you write, then do the same to everyone else.

What I DID say is the Constitution was specifically designed for one purpose: to PROTECT our rights from government encroachment. THAT is why rights are enumerated within: to tell our own government what they may never EVER do to us, be they liberal socialist progressives currently in control of the democratic party, or the knuckle dragging classical "conservatives" that have taken over the Republican party. The Constitution was written to say, in basic terms "These (among others not listed) are our God Given Rights which government may not violate". (ie: enumerated and unenumerated rights) "These are the things you CAN do" (enumerated powers) and "here is how you do what you are allowed to do" (enumerated structures and procedures).

That is the purpose of the Constitution, and that is why the Constitution contains enumerated rights (plus a guarantee of those not enumerated). Not to "grant" us those rights, but to assure they are forever PROTECTED from our own government.

Seriously, you need to actually study American Government and how the Constitution applies. Whomever taught you in high school did a shitty job. (then again, considering your demonstrated comprehension abilities, it probably wasn't his fault...)

And your grasp of United States history is equally lacking. While several groups came over here specifically seeking the freedom to express their religion as they saw fit, they were, by far, NOT the majority taking part in the little insurrection later known as the American Revolution. Freedom of religion is listed among others in the same Amendment: speech, press, assembly, and redress. ALL of them part of the same whole: the inalienable right of a person or group of people to gather and express themselves freely - religiously or otherwise - using any means desired that does not harm others with the same inalienable rights (which did not at that time include blacks or natives).
 
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Riiight.

You are, quite simply, ignorant beyond the words needed to describe. You still insist on completely misusing the term enumerated to mean prioritized. WRONG, nutrino breath.

No, I believe it is a misnomer that our inalienable rights are "enumerated" by the Constitution. They are endowed by our Creator, not enumerated by a Constitution. I am not misusing the term, to enumerate, is to list in order... 1., 2., 3., etc. Well, there is no need to "list" them in order, because they have no priority of order. For us to compose them in a Constitution, they had to be listed, therefore, enumerated... but that didn't make the right itself enumerable. It's a nit-picky thing to you, I know, but I think it illustrates beautifully, the difference between pinhead liberal thinking and constitutional conservative thinking. Anyone who believes in the founding principle of our rights coming from the Creator, and not from a document or man, will fully understand the point I am making, the rights are only enumerated in the Constitution as a means to specify them in writing, nothing more. We don't have "enumerated rights" we have "inalienable rights!"
 
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