Should the US become a democracy?

T

Tranquillus in Exile

New member
We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic,
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Redundant, but correct... We are a Federated Republic.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
not a democracy.
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Correct. We are a Federated Republic.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
Strictly speaking that’s not true.
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No, it IS true... We are a Federated Republic.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.
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That's not how it was intended to be. The 17th amendment was a huge mistake. People were only supposed to directly elect their House representatives. The States were supposed to choose their Senators, and the Electoral College was to choose the President. Mob rule was NEVER the intent of our forefathers...

Tranquillus in Exile said:
We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.
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The EC protects the smaller States and cities from becoming completely irrelevant to a handful of the largest States and cities.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote.
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Who cares. We do not elect Presidents by popular vote.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all).
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Lies.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.
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Trump did not lose either. Mass election fraud is not an honest election. It seems as if Trump will remain President for a second term.

Tranquillus in Exile said:
Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.
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Moo.
 
Some would prob support a monarchy if trump would be the king............

But that is perhaps another thread......

Personally I would prefer a parliamentary system-no winner take all & the power to call for early elections & no confidence votes rather than impeachment...

Israel is a dot on the map w/ several parties to chose from, we are many, many times larger & have only two choices for the most part/for many..

Those two self dealing/self serving parties control the process in every state, county/city....... They connive to undermine any challengers to their monopoly......

They are not embedded in the constitution but they are in our asses & heads........

They are the major problems in every major category....

Their unwillingness to cooperate has only served to exacerbate the countries problems while being paid to make them better......
 
Starting with the 17th Amendment (direct election of senators)...

This was a bad, bad mistake. It turned the Senate into another House for all intents. The Senate wasn't supposed to represent "The People," the House was. The Senate was supposed to represent the States. That is why state legislatures or governors were supposed to elect or appoint senators and they weren't supposed to be elected directly by the public-at-large. That removed state power from the federal government.

That was a terrible move. It's one indication of why we don't need a direct democracy where every office is decided by popular vote.

Doing away with the electoral college is a mistake too. Instead, we should eliminate "winner take all" and apportion electors by the vote in each state. But going that route at the moment means that the Democrats are unlikely to win the presidency for a long time to come.

What direct popular vote election of the President would do is concentrate power in the hands of one party who would then control Congress and the Presidency. This is usually a bad thing and split government requiring debate and compromise is far better.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.
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Good point. The popular vote should determine the Presidency. Electoral College is like demanding we ride horses instead of cars.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.
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Technically a Republic is a form of Democracy.

But yes, I think having Direct Democracy for the presidential election makes more sense than what we have now. Right now, your vote only matter if you live in a state that could realistically go to either candidate. If you live in California or Alaska, don't bother voting, because it won't make a difference.
 
BidenPresident said:
Good point. The popular vote should determine the Presidency. Electoral College is like demanding we ride horses instead of cars.
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It is hard for rightys to understand that small states are irrelevant in many political veins. They have no interest in many, many American policies. The electoral college gives them a lot more power than they should have.
 
Nordberg said:
It is hard for rightys to understand that small states are irrelevant in many political veins. They have no interest in many, many American policies. The electoral college gives them a lot more power than they should have.
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I have voted for President in a lot of different states I lived in. The presidency has nothing to do with what state you live in.
 
Nordberg said:
It is hard for rightys to understand that small states are irrelevant in many political veins. They have no interest in many, many American policies. The electoral college gives them a lot more power than they should have.
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So what happens to those "small states" when the federal government makes a one-size-fits-all policy, regulation, or law that totally screws them because it was tailored to large urbanized states? How does their "irrelevance" to Washington and politicians at the national level translate into something that works for them when that happens? This is particularly common coming from the Left where they see only their own blinkered urban lifestyle as the one everybody should adopt.
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.
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it is true. elected officials are constrained by the constitution. it's this way because of totalitarians like you.
 
anonymoose said:
I would be but only with a national election standard to include voter identification.
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That makes sense. I have to show my Drivers License when I go to Vote. How about you? Do you just wander in Precinct after Precinct and cast a Ballot?
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
We are constantly told by conservatives that the United States is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Strictly speaking that’s not true. The popular vote decides every elected office at every level EXCEPT the Presidency.

We are told the electoral college was dreamt up to persuade smaller states to accept the Constitution. Otherwise - oh no! - a state such as Rhode Island would have been in danger of being overshadowed by the likes of Virginia or Pennsylvania.

More than two centuries later America is still saddled with this archaic deal, and it’s getting worse. Two out of the past six presidential elections were won by a candidate who lost the popular vote. We The People didn’t want George W Bush (the first time) or Donald J Trump (at all). Now, soon-to-be ex-President Trump is having a two-month sulk because he thinks he should have kept the job after losing both the popular vote AND the electoral college.

Time for a rethink when the system throws up freaks like that.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but that's bullshit. You only elect your own Senators and a Representative, not all 100 Senators and all 435 Representatives. You don't elect the Speaker of the House or other positions in Presidential line of order.

A pure Democracy might be doable with biometric tech where every citizen can vote on everything Congress does, but I think that is stupid. As for this Electoral College ruckus, it works. Sure, it didn't work for Hillary in 2016 but it certainly protected all American citizens from Donald J. Trump in 2020. Under your method, Trump would only have had to file one lawsuit, not 50.

Consider the EC as a layer, like properly dressing for bitterly cold winter day, against tyranny. Better to have Hillary lose an election than risk Trump, or some asshole like him, as President for Life.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Sorry, but that's bullshit. You only elect your own Senators and a Representative, not all 100 Senators and all 435 Representatives. You don't elect the Speaker of the House or other positions in Presidential line of order.

A pure Democracy might be doable with biometric tech where every citizen can vote on everything Congress does, but I think that is stupid. As for this Electoral College ruckus, it works. Sure, it didn't work for Hillary in 2016 but it certainly protected all American citizens from Donald J. Trump in 2020. Under your method, Trump would only have had to file one lawsuit, not 50.
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What exactly does the Electoral College work at?
 
gfm7175 said:
Redundant, but correct... We are a Federated Republic.

Correct. We are a Federated Republic.

No, it IS true... We are a Federated Republic.

That's not how it was intended to be. The 17th amendment was a huge mistake. People were only supposed to directly elect their House representatives. The States were supposed to choose their Senators, and the Electoral College was to choose the President. Mob rule was NEVER the intent of our forefathers...

The EC protects the smaller States and cities from becoming completely irrelevant to a handful of the largest States and cities.

Who cares. We do not elect Presidents by popular vote.

Lies.

Trump did not lose either. Mass election fraud is not an honest election. It seems as if Trump will remain President for a second term.

Moo.
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Dude, regardless if you post as INT, IBDa or gfm, your posts are overly long and boorish. The oversized signature with your fake forum links just adds to the bullshit.
 
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