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The coffee gave her third degree burns all throughout her lower body, and she had to spend several weeks in intensive care getting new skin grafted on. Even if you are still going to blame it on her, it's not like it she was just mildly annoyed. The damage was devastating. Should consumers really be expected to go around treating every cup of coffee they receive as if it may be a cup of lava, because it's totally your responsibility to expect such a thing, and no fault at all on the part of the producer of the cup of coffee for giving out a cup of coffee hot enough to destroy all the skin on the lower part of your body? Anyway, the defendant only really asked the court to pay her (significant) medical bills. It was the jury that decided to give out ridiculously huge punitive damages.

I believe that a cup of lava would have melted the cup and set quite a few things on fire.

She wanted the nanny state to help her with her stupidity and she found 12 others who believe in the cradle to grave concept.
 
Correct, it is the responsibility of the state to protect it's citizens. What are laws against murder and theft besides the subsidization of weakness, after all? If you can't protect yourself, why do you think you have the right to go whining to papa government about it?

If that seems stupid to you, congratulations, you now realize how stupid you seem to me.

Stupid ironic post, by Sherman, will always be a stupid ironic post.
 
Correct, it is the responsibility of the state to protect it's citizens. What are laws against murder and theft besides the subsidization of weakness, after all? If you can't protect yourself, why do you think you have the right to go whining to papa government about it?

If that seems stupid to you, congratulations, you now realize how stupid you seem to me.

Your rights are all harmful to you. Let's let government take over for you, there.
 
I believe that a cup of lava would have melted the cup and set quite a few things on fire.

It's called hyperbole.

She wanted the nanny state to help her with her stupidity and she found 12 others who believe in the cradle to grave concept.

It was a civil dispute between two individuals, it has nothing to do with the "nanny state", you ignorant oaf. This case wouldn't be notable at all if it couldn't be presented in a way in which it made it seem as if the damage were trivial. Under current contract law, there is an implied guarantee of fitness for products. Caveat emptor, or absolving the maker of all responsibility for defects, hasn't been law for a century. That's a stupid and economically inefficient rule that does nothing but reward people for screwing others.

If you are seriously selling a beverage that can cause that kind of damage, it is damn well your responsibility to make this fact explicit, so that I can treat it with the appropriate amount of care. The care required of something that will burn through my skin should it be spilt, rather than something, like any typical cup of coffee, that will only mildly annoy me. It is not my responsibility to expect such a thing, so far out of anyone's typical experience with the beverage. If you do not inform me, it's not at all unreasonable for you to pay the medical bills. I would agree that millions in punitive damages is ridiculous, but that's an inevitable byproduct of our civil system.
 
Your rights are all harmful to you. Let's let government take over for you, there.

Defective products are harmful to me. Cancer is harmful to me. Thieves and murderers are harmful to me. Foreign invaders are harmful to me. Pardon me, but I do not consider any of these to be "my rights". Please correct me if I've overlooked something.

I suppose we could take the position that it's my responsibility to deal with these issues, and it's my fault if I fall prey to them. I suppose that's even a somewhat reasonable stance sometimes, when facing some threats, provided that social organization is so low that it's not really possible to effectively provide them. Like if you're in the middle ages. But most modern societies that are able to choose to protect people from at least these things. However, we have a curious strand in the US that picks two of the classes I listed above, says they deserve social protection, and then ignores the other two.

I suppose you could say that, going by the harm principle, it's only permissible to organize social force to deal with issues in which one persons right comes into conflict with another's; i.e. rather than sitting by the sidelines and letting the right to property and the freedom of theft fight it out, we intervene on the side of property. However, it is one thing to say that a person has a right to defend their property, or that you have the right to help them defend it. It's another to force me to come out on the side of property, isn't it? It no longer has the same implied reciprocity. Maybe I just don't give a shit? However, without the force of society actively discincentivizing the freedom of theft, all we really are doing at the end of the day is letting them fight it out.

Such logic also performs a sort of evasion. It essentially privileges human caused sources of harm above all others, as specially deserving of protection. But, if you think about it, why should that be so? You can force me to defend property, even though that violates my right to sociopathically not give a shit. But when there is a similar conflict between the freedom of cancer to kill and the right of someone to live, why is it all of the sudden the case that mandatorily organizing society on the side of life is a grave threat to freedom? Does cancer not violate your rights? Does it stop at the end of your nose?
 
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You can harm yourself through your freedom of speech, assembly, and just about all of your other rights, correct? Let government decide them for you, or should I say, government WILL decide them for you.
 
You can harm yourself through your freedom of speech, assembly, and just about all of your other rights, correct? Let government decide them for you, or should I say, government WILL decide them for you.

Well, other people can harm you in retribution, within their right to do so. But that's obviously something you take upon yourself. The foremost job is to protect someone from obvious injustices that they really don't bear responsibility for.

Of course, you sort of need a rule to see where the responsibility lies. You could say caveat emptor, which is probably the simplest. But that is sort of an unfair burden - why should sellers bear no responsibility for telling white lies and leaving out vital information about how their product is dangerous, or for presenting it as something it is not? Is it my responsibility to not be lied to, or yours not to lie to me?

I think the second is really sort of like a social convention that totally makes it your own responsibility to not be stolen from. Such a social convention might even sort of work, if everyone understood and was prepared for it. It would just suck, and be horribly inefficient and unjust. It's the reductio ad absurdum of this sort of victim blaming logic.
 
It's called hyperbole.



It was a civil dispute between two individuals, it has nothing to do with the "nanny state", you ignorant oaf. This case wouldn't be notable at all if it couldn't be presented in a way in which it made it seem as if the damage were trivial. Under current contract law, there is an implied guarantee of fitness for products. Caveat emptor, or absolving the maker of all responsibility for defects, hasn't been law for a century. That's a stupid and economically inefficient rule that does nothing but reward people for screwing others.

If you are seriously selling a beverage that can cause that kind of damage, it is damn well your responsibility to make this fact explicit, so that I can treat it with the appropriate amount of care. The care required of something that will burn through my skin should it be spilt, rather than something, like any typical cup of coffee, that will only mildly annoy me. It is not my responsibility to expect such a thing, so far out of anyone's typical experience with the beverage. If you do not inform me, it's not at all unreasonable for you to pay the medical bills. I would agree that millions in punitive damages is ridiculous, but that's an inevitable byproduct of our civil system.

And I agree that you are someone who needs to be protected from yourself and a label should be attached to you, that reads "Keep all objects at least 15 feet from me; because I might hurt myself and sue you".
 
It's called hyperbole.



It was a civil dispute between two individuals, it has nothing to do with the "nanny state", you ignorant oaf. This case wouldn't be notable at all if it couldn't be presented in a way in which it made it seem as if the damage were trivial. Under current contract law, there is an implied guarantee of fitness for products. Caveat emptor, or absolving the maker of all responsibility for defects, hasn't been law for a century. That's a stupid and economically inefficient rule that does nothing but reward people for screwing others.

If you are seriously selling a beverage that can cause that kind of damage, it is damn well your responsibility to make this fact explicit, so that I can treat it with the appropriate amount of care. The care required of something that will burn through my skin should it be spilt, rather than something, like any typical cup of coffee, that will only mildly annoy me. It is not my responsibility to expect such a thing, so far out of anyone's typical experience with the beverage. If you do not inform me, it's not at all unreasonable for you to pay the medical bills. I would agree that millions in punitive damages is ridiculous, but that's an inevitable byproduct of our civil system.

Caveat emptor, or absolving the maker of all responsibility for defects, hasn't been law for a century. That's a stupid and economically inefficient rule that does nothing but reward people for screwing others.

That's precisely what contributed to the near financial collapse. Greenspan was aware of the scam involving "financial products" but rationalized people would stop investing in them once a few others got burnt. Unfortunately, it didn't work that way and Greenspan had to acknowledge to Congress his philosophy, his idea of how the world worked, was wrong.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/

Our capitalist society is based on screwing others as witnessed by the ease one can open a business, offer shoddy goods/services, grab the money, then declare bankruptcy and the ill-gotten gains are protected against seizure. Such practices have no place in a society as interdependent as ours.
 
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