Stern: "Trump actually hates his own supporters".

There is no tolerance on the left, there is no "You live your life and I will live mine" when it comes to people who dont think "Right".... the project on the Left is to make a better human, one who is ready for UTOPIA, which is so important a project with them that the Mind Molding begins in Pre-K.

I can't speak for all Leftists, but for the most part, the Left does have a "live and let live" attitude. The only time we try to stop other people's behavior is when they're doing something harmful. The Left created child labor laws because, even though parents can raise their kids how they want, we will restrict you from harming your children.

Now compare that to the Right, which has a tendency towards Fascism. When the Right tries to control other people's behavior, such as restricting the rights of women and LGBT people, it's about forcing people to live traditionally.
 
He probably got it from an Alt Right source, that made it up. Either way, it was made up and just assumed we would accept it.

Yeah, and this is a huge problem with the internet. Anyone can make up a lie and days later it's "common knowledge." But there is a difference between the people repeating the lie and the asshole who is making up the lie in order to fool people.
 
https://www.nydailynews.com/snyde/n...qgbbtxjsyocj46mtvse-story.html?outputType=amp

Take a look at the tRump family history and you can plainly see that they hate middle class and lower class Americans. tRump wouldn't piss on these folks if their insides were on fire, yet they sacrifice their own credability and self respect (those that actually had some to start with) to defend him. Simply unbelievable. Then again, tRump himself said he loved the uneducated. Now, we know why.

Trump hates Earl!:)
 
Trump thinks only of himself. He has no friends since Epstein died. When he goes to world conferences, he sits alone while other world leaders laugh at him. Trump is a dick and everyone knows it. The world is waiting for America to lead. That will happen after Trump is gone.
 
Trump thinks only of himself. He has no friends since Epstein died. When he goes to world conferences, he sits alone while other world leaders laugh at him. Trump is a dick and everyone knows it. The world is waiting for America to lead. That will happen after Trump is gone.

That's why he's rich and still so miserable.
 
Hey, another thing we agree on.

Though there is some evidence that we evolved altruism, so maybe on some level, people are good. It might just be that altruism requires long-term thinking, which humans are horrible at.

Altruism is a tricky word. There is such a thing as rational self-interest, which can lead to altruism, but there is a question as to whether any action can really be altruistic in the full sense.

For example, being compassionate toward others can result in societal harmony when done on the collective level, which has practical effects for those doing said acts. There is self-interest involved in the aggregate.

That being said, compassion can be a mistake to show towards certain individuals.
 
See from my point of view, this is just about a fear of change. We already have laws against animal cruelty and excessive and/or unnecessary pollution. So why would it be overbearing to ban animal breeding? If we did this, your life would barely change. The only difference is you'd be healthier and your descendants would grow up in a cleaner environment.
The only reason banning the breeding of animals, thus creating forced veganism, sounds so scary is because it's a new idea.

Humans require protein. If you effectively banned all animal consumption, then you would need to devote a lot of effort to ensuring that humanity had a proper alternative source to protein. One of the more common alternatives is soy, but we've seen that phytoestrogens have a negative effect on humans. All plants have phytoestrogens, but only certain plants have high enough levels of them to harm humans hormonally. Soy is one of those plants. There are other plants that have high protein but do not have the phytoestrogen issue, like jackfruit. Jackfruit isn't currently a widely available plant, but I suppose that could change.

Even if said efforts were successful in making jackfruit the primary substitution of meat, there would still be the question of state interference. If you want to call fear of government overreach a "fear of change", then so be it, but I call it fear of authoritarianism -- something we already are somewhat experiencing. If we allow government to dictate how we eat, then where does it stop? Should we ban desserts next? They don't have any particular nutritional value. We could feasibly lower the incidence of diabetes by doing so. Should we ban fast food? That would presumably lower a lot of other health problems.

You can justify about any government action in a cost-benefit analysis, if you have no particular concern for personal freedom. If there are no principled bounds on what government should be allowed to do, there are numerous actions the government could take that would likely make us healthier and safer. Granted, it also depends on if you value freedom over health and safety. Personally, I do. I think freedom is one of the most important aspects of Western life. Without it, there's really not much reason to live in the West. I could think of several non-Western countries that are safer than America and most of Europe but have far less freedoms. Singapore is a good example. Japan is another.

To me, the point of living in a Western country is specifically about freedom. If we lose most of our freedoms in the pursuit of supposed safety and health, then there isn't much appeal to living here anymore.

If that doesn't convince you, consider this. Why are Conservatives, especially small town Conservatives, so scared of legalizing drugs and prostitution? This would decrease the size of government and we'd be letting adults do what they want with their own bodies. It's seem so obvious that these things should be legal in a free country. But it's not about government or freedom, it's about tradition and a fear of change.

On prostitution, I agree. Drugs are a bit different, however. Decriminalizing drugs makes sense. It's worked fairly well for Portugal, and it treats users as addicts, not criminals.

Legalizing drugs leads to a myriad of issues. The biggest issue with legalizing pot, for example, is that the current legal market for it still has connections to organized crime. Each state that has legalized it has different regulations, but there are ways that the supply chain can still involve criminal elements. And the cartels can use pot as a money laundering market for their other activities (like human trafficking). It's no different from how the mafia used alcohol as a money laundering market after the end of Prohibition.

The only way to really avoid this issue is to make all legal pot grown by the government or by a small group of corporations that don't have cartel connections. Under that structure, I suppose legalizing pot isn't a problem, but again, it requires proper regulation to maintain this.

In big cities, people are forced to learn tolerance, which conditions them to be ok with change. That's not to say we think all change is good, but we're not afraid of it. So we're able to examine issues logically instead of just saying everything should stay the same.

Tolerance of everything except for differing opinions, you mean. Big cities are very much afraid of change. Try reforming unions, for example. A lot of industries in big cities are slaves to unions. The oldest and biggest cities are the most locked into powerful oligarchies. Only people with the proper family and personal connections get the levers of power.

In short, the only "change" that big cities usually support involve giving government more power or pushing certain progressive social agendas.
 
Hello Woko Haram,



Interesting.

You wanted to know why I believe something which cannot be proven, so I told you about my atheist faith.

Apparently that did the trick. You dropped the angle about believing in something which cannot be proven in order to reflect on an unproven thing that you yourself believe in.

And that's OK.

I appreciate the honesty. Thank you for that. I almost clicked a Thank You to your post but hesitated because I didn't want people to get the idea that I agreed with it. I don't, but I do appreciate straight up honesty. So many on these forums only want to play games and mess with other people. It's refreshing to talk with someone who does not play those shallow games. Thanks.

Fair enough. Granted, my belief about culture does have a lot of evidence. It's shown by how some cultures are a lot more violent and destructive than others.

If humans were truly innately good, then the results of culture would be far less varied. Their innate goodness would have prevented things like the horrors of the Holocaust.
 
Hello Woko Haram,

Fair enough. Granted, my belief about culture does have a lot of evidence. It's shown by how some cultures are a lot more violent and destructive than others.

If humans were truly innately good, then the results of culture would be far less varied. Their innate goodness would have prevented things like the horrors of the Holocaust.

I think there are more good humans than bad, but for each bad one, enough trouble is caused to make it appear there is more bad than good. The bad makes news, gets written into history, the good tends to go more unnoticed because there is so much more of it it is too common to be newsworthy.

Here's my logic: If there were really more bad than good, the world would be going downhill. I know it may seem like that at the moment, but when you look at all of history, we have been on an overall upward trajectory with some setbacks here and there along the way. Even though the current mess is a setback, the overall trajectory is still upward.

We just have to find our footing, turn things around, and get back to the never ending work of building a better world. That's all.
 
Hello Woko Haram,



I think there are more good humans than bad, but for each bad one, enough trouble is caused to make it appear there is more bad than good. The bad makes news, gets written into history, the good tends to go more unnoticed because there is so much more of it it is too common to be newsworthy.

Here's my logic: If there were really more bad than good, the world would be going downhill. I know it may seem like that at the moment, but when you look at all of history, we have been on an overall upward trajectory with some setbacks here and there along the way. Even though the current mess is a setback, the overall trajectory is still upward.

We just have to find our footing, turn things around, and get back to the never ending work of building a better world. That's all.

I should clarify what I mean. I do believe that there are more good people than bad as well, but it's not because they are innately good. It's because they had the proper cultural upbringing.

Bad people usually are the result of bad parenting or bad circumstances. In short, people are primarily a product of their environment.
 
Altruism is a tricky word. There is such a thing as rational self-interest, which can lead to altruism, but there is a question as to whether any action can really be altruistic in the full sense.

For example, being compassionate toward others can result in societal harmony when done on the collective level, which has practical effects for those doing said acts. There is self-interest involved in the aggregate.

That being said, compassion can be a mistake to show towards certain individuals.

Supposedly doing altruistic acts results in a rush of dopamine, so our brains actually reward us for doing the right thing. It does kinda make sense, we evolved this feature because it was good for the tribe. But it could also be that society conditions us to believe in morality and that's why we get the dopamine rush. Either way, it's an interesting theory.
 
I should clarify what I mean. I do believe that there are more good people than bad as well, but it's not because they are innately good. It's because they had the proper cultural upbringing.

Bad people usually are the result of bad parenting or bad circumstances. In short, people are primarily a product of their environment.

Then consider why people have several kids and only one is a criminal. I think it is your reaction to your environment.
 
Hello Woko Haram,

I should clarify what I mean. I do believe that there are more good people than bad as well, but it's not because they are innately good. It's because they had the proper cultural upbringing.

Bad people usually are the result of bad parenting or bad circumstances. In short, people are primarily a product of their environment.

I totally agree with that.

Following on that, it is logical to realize that if society makes it more difficult for the poor to rise above cross-generational poverty, blames them for their own condition, does nothing to help them transcend that mighty barrier which locks them and their posterity out of prosperity, the world will be filled with increasingly more bad people.

But if society does what it can to lift people out of poverty, helps them rise above those mighty hurdles, then increasingly more people in succeeding generations will know goodness and impart it into their offspring.

That will not eliminate the bad, but will certainly relegate it to smaller and smaller segments of society.

Also, and sadly, not all the bad parenting is confined to those who are unsuccessful. Some very powerful people are powerfully bad.

We cannot eliminate poverty any more than we can eliminate the greed of some of the most powerful, but we can foment the kinds of policy that reduce both, and keep them in check. I think the world has always done that over time, but those wheels of change turn agonizingly slowly.
 
Hello Woko Haram,



I totally agree with that.

Following on that, it is logical to realize that if society makes it more difficult for the poor to rise above cross-generational poverty, blames them for their own condition, does nothing to help them transcend that mighty barrier which locks them and their posterity out of prosperity, the world will be filled with increasingly more bad people.

But if society does what it can to lift people out of poverty, helps them rise above those mighty hurdles, then increasingly more people in succeeding generations will know goodness and impart it into their offspring.

That will not eliminate the bad, but will certainly relegate it to smaller and smaller segments of society.

Also, and sadly, not all the bad parenting is confined to those who are unsuccessful. Some very powerful people are powerfully bad.

We cannot eliminate poverty any more than we can eliminate the greed of some of the most powerful, but we can foment the kinds of policy that reduce both, and keep them in check. I think the world has always done that over time, but those wheels of change turn agonizingly slowly.

I'm fine with increasing opportunities for people. The problem is that a lot of policies that supposedly are aimed at reducing poverty instead just create dependency on government funds.
 
I'm fine with increasing opportunities for people. The problem is that a lot of policies that supposedly are aimed at reducing poverty instead just create dependency on government funds.

The problem is many leftists have no self preservation, no ambition to become successful at something.

Everyone has the same opportunity to become successful in this country. Your own life is what you make it.
 
The problem is many leftists have no self preservation, no ambition to become successful at something.

Everyone has the same opportunity to become successful in this country. Your own life is what you make it.

Too many "righties" think that they are morally superior and that everyone should live like they do. Conservative righties want servitude from folks that think differently. They are not interested in equality for all. Just their perception of equality for themselves.
 
Too many "righties" think that they are morally superior and that everyone should live like they do. Conservative righties want servitude from folks that think differently. They are not interested in equality for all. Just their perception of equality for themselves.

It is not my responsibility to assist you with your diffidence. Get a life. Live it, and take responsibility for it. Don't blame others for your own failures.
 
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