Suggestion about our criminal system

F

FUCK THE POLICE

911 EVERY DAY
I suggest that we reform our prison model. Instead of simply locking criminals up, we should put them in a controlled setting. In this controlled setting there will be a list of rules, obvious ones and mundane ones. The basic state of a criminal in this system shall be solitary confinement. If the criminal can go a specific time without breaking any of the rules, his rights in the prison system are incrementally increased, such as getting a telivision, the amount of time the prisoner can watch it etc...

If the prisoner breaks the rules, his rights are incrementally decreased until he's back at solitary confinement. Hopefully we can try and teach them to follow stupid rules, and if they can follow stupid rules, hopefully they'll follow the important ones.

This isn't a foolproof method. And we'd have to test it out first with a limited poulation. But it's better than what we're doing now. There's no 100% sure way to "cure" criminal behavior. But unless we just want to lock everyone up for life we should try reform. I think they do something like this in Denmark already.

Also, there should be a period after prison, maybe as long as the prison sentence itself or during parole, in which they will be have to go to weekly group therapy or be put back into prison. I believe group therapy has been proven effective at reducing recividism in a number of antisocial actions, as kumayaish as it may sound. If it works I'm for it.
 
Are you familiar with the idea of the Model Prison? I'm thinking of the first English Model Prison in Pentonville, London and a similar, derivative form in the penal settlement at Port Arthur, Tasmania.

The Model Prison operated on the theory that complete isolation was an effective form of rehabilitation. Prisoners were not allowed contact with each other and were held in cells in complete isolation and absolute silence. They were referred to by numbers rather than names, and wore hoods whenever they left their cells, so they could not recognise anyone, or be recognised. They wore soft bags over their feet when walking to silence any noise.

The Model Prison was a local interpretation of the British prison of this type in developing 19th century ideas of punishment and social reform. As a result of its systematic application of the techniques of silence and isolation, it ultimately may have driven some convicts insane.

This probably contributed to the need for the opening of the Port Arthur Asylum in 1868, as Port Arthur became more of a welfare institution for lunatics, ex-convicts, convict invalids and paupers.
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- http://tinyurl.com/2w24hx

If you want to see a very good prison model you only have to take a trip over the 49th Parallel to see Canada's.
 
Hmmm--sounds like a perfect way to groom and condition new Liberial Democrats for public service. Not that I don't already see a parallel there. :)
 
Watermark said:
Why would anyone think that solitary confinement for years on end would be an effective form of rehabilition?
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In hopes the prisioner would learn that by following the rules, he could have more priveledges. Come on. Basic dog traning man. You knew that.

the problem is what rules we will probably end up teaching them. I can see Hillery campaigning in prision now---as she really should be campaigning from.
 
theMAJORITY said:
In hopes the prisioner would learn that by following the rules, he could have more priveledges. Come on. Basic dog traning man. You knew that.

the problem is what rules we will probably end up teaching them. I can see Hillery campaigning in prision now---as she really should be campaigning from.
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What are you talking about?

Solitary confinement for any over extended period of time is an especially severe form of torture. It is used the harshest level of punishment in my system but it's not supposed to be a permanent state. Hopefully no one will be in there for more than a month.

The "Model prison" is just idiotic. It provides no incentive for good behavior, it's just torture.
 
Watermark said:
Why would anyone think that solitary confinement for years on end would be an effective form of rehabilition?
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My thoughts exactly. I had those thoughts the first time I was shown around the Model Prison at Port Arthur and on subsequent visits those thoughts returned. I think, don't know for sure, that there was hope that the prisoners would find God and be redeemed. We can look back on it now and wonder. But back then the Model Prison, with its harsh rules on silence, it's reliance on solitary confinement and its use of Bentham's panopticon, was considered to be an extremely human advance on what previously transpired.
 
Watermark said:
What are you talking about?

Solitary confinement for any over extended period of time is an especially severe form of torture. It is used the harshest level of punishment in my system but it's not supposed to be a permanent state. Hopefully no one will be in there for more than a month.

The "Model prison" is just idiotic. It provides no incentive for good behavior, it's just torture.
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If you read what he said--solitary confinement for a short period, if the person follows the rules. Then the person graduates to a higher level of rights and priveledges. The amount of time would depend on the prisioners willingness to be rehabilitated for citizanship again. He did not say it was to be a long time in soletary confinement--you did. And now you got everyone all emotional about a statement that was not made in the idea you critize. You added the "long time"---because it was not a bad enough idea for you.
 
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theMAJORITY said:
If you read what he said--solitary confinement for a short period, if the person follows the rules. Then the person graduates to a higher level of rights and priveledges. The amount of time would depend on the prisioners willingness to be rehabilitated for citizanship again. He did not say it was to be a long time in soletary confinement--you did. And now you got everyone all emotional about a statement that was not made in the idea you critize. You added the "long time"---because it was not a bad enough idea for you.
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Errr...

I wrote the opinion on the top of the page.

My "Why would anyone think that solitary confinement is a good way to rehabilitate people?" was in respone to Diuretic's comments. I think he was trying to compare my proposed model to the "model prison", which locked people in solitary confinement for 24/7 all day. An electric zoo. And I was trying to say that mine was nothing like that. Solitary confinement is the harshest punishment and not to be used for extended periods of time.
 
Watermark said:
Errr...

I wrote the opinion on the top of the page.

My "Why would anyone think that solitary confinement is a good way to rehabilitate people?" was in respone to Diuretic's comments. I think he was trying to compare my proposed model to the "model prison", which locked people in solitary confinement for 24/7 all day. An electric zoo. And I was trying to say that mine was nothing like that. Solitary confinement is the harshest punishment and not to be used for extended periods of time.
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I was actually thinking about the tension between prison management and one of the aims of punishment - rehabilitation. I agree, solitary confinement is extremely harsh. I think (not that I know anything about prison management) that it has to be used sparingly, but it should always be an option for the most dangerous and recalcitrant of prisoners.

I agree with the points in your opening post. I am strongly in favour of rehabilitation as being one of the important goals of punishment and not something that should be ignored or faint efforts made to achieve it.

I find it risible when someone writes an outraged letter to the editor calling for bread and water and breaking rocks in the hot sun and no television, let alone cable tv, and no Playboy magazines and blah blah blah. Right, prisoners with no privileges have nothing to lose, they may as well have a riot every day.
 
I got this idea from somewhere whenever I was looking up treatments for antisocial disorder. A controlled enviroment like this was presented as the best option for rehabilition. Since almost all prisoners are antisocial we may as well just make treatment of antisocials a regular part of our prison system.

Those in prison for life, those deemed unrehabilitatable, and those who clearly aren't antisocial, should be put into a regular system, who's main purpose is simply to keep up deterrence.
 
It sounds like an effective plan.

Most criminals I've dealt with, I mean violent criminals, not smart criminals, would benefit from a tightly controlled environment, almost a Walden Two, where they could be trained, yes, trained like in a Skinner box, to behave in an acceptable manner.

Violent juveniles, when you look at their family background, usually come from violent families where the norms of behaviour in the family completely at odds with normal social norms. Yelling, shouting, biffing each other, drinking and using drugs without any concept of doing what needs to be done before getting off their faces. They seem to be all id, these people.
 
Diuretic said:
It sounds like an effective plan.

Most criminals I've dealt with, I mean violent criminals, not smart criminals, would benefit from a tightly controlled environment, almost a Walden Two, where they could be trained, yes, trained like in a Skinner box, to behave in an acceptable manner.

Violent juveniles, when you look at their family background, usually come from violent families where the norms of behaviour in the family completely at odds with normal social norms. Yelling, shouting, biffing each other, drinking and using drugs without any concept of doing what needs to be done before getting off their faces. They seem to be all id, these people.
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You have a background in the criminal system?
 
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