TESLA NAMED CHEAPEST LUXURY CAR BRAND TO MAINTAIN:‘I WILL NEVER OWN A GAS CAR AGAIN'

[Walt]

I see a light post on the island in the middle of that parking lot. That means there is electricity that has been run to that island, and charging stations could be installed on that island. It would cost a bit more... But there are always improvements necessary when you are a landlord.

The real question is whether these improvements are the improvements that we want as a society? The alt right complaints that there is work involved with keeping society running is just a distraction from the real question.

 

[Hawkeye10]

The story I am pretty dang sure looks a lot different if one tracks the number of days per year the car is not usable because of a problem.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I see a light post on the island in the middle of that parking lot. That means there is electricity that has been run to that island, and charging stations could be installed on that island. It would cost a bit more... But there are always improvements necessary when you are a landlord.

The real question is whether these improvements are the improvements that we want as a society? The alt right complaints that there is work involved with keeping society running is just a distraction from the real question.

Not happening. That light post is very likely 277 VAC running on 14 ga wire pulling less than 2 amps. Even if it's 240 VAC it's on 12 ga wire at most and pulls around 2 amps at most. It's likely wired on direct burial UG cable rather than run through conduit in either case.

To put in charging stations involves cutting the asphalt and possibly, probably some concrete, trenching down 18 to 24" for conduit, running new conduit, pulling new wire, putting in a new meter and service, and then installing the charging stations one per conduit run as code allows only three current carrying conductors per conduit without derating the ampacity of the wire in it.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Tesla still cant maintain even normal car standards of fit and finish much less lux cars.

 

[Walt]

Not happening.

Once you got one electrical line, it is easy enough to pull through another electrical line. I have done it myself, and I reassure you that any electrician can do the same.

Even if you could not, it would just delay the improvement, not make the improvement impossible. I have lived in pre-electrical apartments, that had electricity added later(well before I moved in, but after they were built). Electricity can be added.

To put in charging stations involves cutting the asphalt and possibly, probably some concrete, trenching down 18 to 24" for conduit, running new conduit, pulling new wire, putting in a new meter and service, and then installing the charging stations one per conduit run as code allows only three current carrying conductors per conduit without derating the ampacity of the wire in it.

There is no requirement for electrical wires to not be overhead. I wish there was, I prefer underground conduits, but there is not.

Random side point: the entire Denver Airport had all its electricity coming through a single conduit, so I assure you that it is possible for more than one car to be charged through a single conduit.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Once you got one electrical line, it is easy enough to pull through another electrical line. I have done it myself, and I reassure you that any electrician can do the same.

Even if you could not, it would just delay the improvement, not make the improvement impossible. I have lived in pre-electrical apartments, that had electricity added later(well before I moved in, but after they were built). Electricity can be added.



There is no requirement for electrical wires to not be overhead. I wish there was, I prefer underground conduits, but there is not.

Bullshit! Parking lot lighting is usually run in 1/2" EMT or NMC, 3/4" at most. Decent charging stations require 1" minimum and 1 1/2" preferably if the run is over 100 feet.

Random side point: the entire Denver Airport had all its electricity coming through a single conduit, so I assure you that it is possible for more than one car to be charged through a single conduit.

I call bullshit on that too. It may have had it run through a concrete cable trough, but it didn't go through a single conduit. The largest trade size conduit is 6" diameter and that allows for still just three current carrying conductors to be used. I've personally installed far smaller industrial load centers and those had 4 to 6 4" NMC conduit run to them.

 

[ZenMode]

--Charging times
--Issues with charging stations from being inoperable to not accepting payment
--Lack of compatibility with the car to be charged
--Insufficient power available on the grid to handle all the charging
--Unavailability of a wide selection of vehicle types
--Poor towing capacity
--Poor performance of battery in very hot and cold weather
--Battery life / vehicle life and recycling costs
--Initial cost of the vehicle

Some of those items I'd lump into the two items I mentioned. Others I wasn't aware of because I've never seriously considered buying an EV (ie charging compatibility).

I did consider the Chevy Bolt or Volt... whichever has the gas generator backup.

There's a white Tesla in my neighborhood. Twice I've ended up behind it when it's close to "E" and can only go about 10 mph....I assume with no AC on.

 

[ZenMode]

And both issues are being resolved with time. 14 new superchargers are being installed in America every day.

VOLVO’S UNIQUE, ALL-ELECTRIC MULTI-PURPOSE LUXURY VEHICLE GIVES THEM A LEG UP IN EV REVOLUTION: ‘AN EXCITING NEW OPTION’
“It allows us to tap new market demand we’ve not explored before.”
by Laurelle Stelle*/*December 1, 2023

After building hype with a set of images shared online in October, Swedish automaker Volvo has officially released its first-ever electric minivan, the EM90, CleanTechnica reports.
The EM90 might not be what you expect from a minivan, though. It is first being released in China, and according to CleanTechnica, minivans have a very different image there than they do in the United States. Whereas Americans associate them with soccer moms hauling around carloads of kids, to the average person in China, a minivan is a luxury vehicle for transporting high-end executives.

Sure.... eventually the issues will be ironed out. EVs just aren't a realistic solution to replace ICE vehicles in all scenarios... probably few actually.

 

[Lionfish]

 

[Into the Night]

You can charge at a rental property if the unit has electricity. Simple. Next question?

Not so simple.

Electricity has to be available to the parking spaces, and that also means reducing the available parking spaces to make room for chargers.
Electricity has to be in sufficient amperage to be able to charge a car, and that also means the length and type of wire used is significant.
The risk of fire during charging has to be mitigated.
The plug compatibility issue has to be dealt with.
Nothing is free. Rents go up even HIGHER to provide such charging.
EVs are heavy, and that means they overload parking garages, which are not designed for their extra weight.
EVs are expensive, putting them beyond the financial means to pay for them for most apartment dwellers, especially where rent is already extremely high.
Older apartment complexes are expensive to bring up to code.

 

[Into the Night]

I'm not talking about apartment complexes. In talking about rental properties that AREN'T apartments. You know, like townhomes and single-family homes. Apartments alone DO NOT make up 60% of American homes.
Next question.

Trying to dodge now?
The subject is currently about apartment complexes and condos, including townhomes.

 

[Into the Night]

Then explain coats. The idea of insulation trapping heat goes back to the stone ages. You are way behind the times.

Coats and other thermal insulation products do not trap heat. You cannot trap heat. They reduce heat.
You obviously don't know what heat is, even though I've already told you.

Heat is the flow of thermal energy. It is NOT thermal energy itself.

Putting a coat on a rock will NOT make the rock warmer.

CO2 happens to be an excellent conductor of thermal energy. It's a lousy insulator!

Space is an insulator. There is almost NO thermal conduction in space. Earth happens to be surrounded by space, yet there is heat. Why?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Coats and other thermal insulation products do not trap heat. You cannot trap heat. They reduce heat.
You obviously don't know what heat is, even though I've already told you.

Heat is the flow of thermal energy. It is NOT thermal energy itself.

Putting a coat on a rock will NOT make the rock warmer.

CO2 happens to be an excellent conductor of thermal energy. It's a lousy insulator!

Space is an insulator. There is almost NO thermal conduction in space. Earth happens to be surrounded by space, yet there is heat. Why?

No, coats and such reduce the rate of heat transfer between two points of matter. Q = m(T1 - T2)

 

[T. A. Gardner]

[/B]

Then those in apartments won't buy one YET.
But as apartment complexes install chargers and EVs become cheaper, that's gonna change.
There was time when there weren't gas stations on every corner, as well.
Piss all you want. The EV revolution is here and you and your fellow MAGA morons ain't changing that.

Apartment complex owners would be stupid to install them. They would be 'common property' and the responsibility of the complex owner(s). Why take on that added risk? Why take on the added cost of installation, insurance, and upkeep? They would be fools to do so. The cost of the rent would necessarily increase too. That doesn't bode well for low-income renters.

I doubt there are many landlords willing to spend tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on charging stations. Better to tell the renters to charge somewhere else than pay out all that money.

 

[Into the Night]

[/B]
Then those in apartments won't buy one YET.

So you automatically just write those people off from driving when the mandates come around. That's just self centered and heartless.

[/B]
But as apartment complexes install chargers

Not so simple, and many can't.

[/B]
and EVs become cheaper, that's gonna change.

EVs are no cheaper. They are heavily subsidized.

[/B]
There was time when there weren't gas stations on every corner, as well.

Gas stations aren't located at apartments. They don't need to be. Gasoline was available at local suppliers long before the gasoline car.

[/B]
Piss all you want. The EV revolution is here

What 'revolution'?? Less than 1% of the cars on the road are EVs.

[/B]
and you and your fellow MAGA morons ain't changing that.

MAGA isn't a person. I cannot change your religion. I accept that. I WILL point out the futility of it to others, though.

 

[Into the Night]

I see a light post on the island in the middle of that parking lot. That means there is electricity that has been run to that island, and charging stations could be installed on that island. It would cost a bit more... But there are always improvements necessary when you are a landlord.

The real question is whether these improvements are the improvements that we want as a society? The alt right complaints that there is work involved with keeping society running is just a distraction from the real question.

That light is already on a loaded circuit. You can't charge from such a loaded circuit. Chargers require high amperage circuits (far more than provide by that lighting circuit!). To make such a parking lot capable of EVs charging, you must provide multiple very large transformers and added taps to the primary service. That ain't cheap. Further, chargers require space. That means less parking space.

I already know you have no idea what Ohm's law is or what it's used for, or why wiring has to be a certain minimum size for the length of run at particular voltages and current. You can't see electrons which is why this confuses you so much. You don't know anything about electrochemistry which is why batteries confuse you so much.

Now let's discuss being a landlord (since I am one!). Landlords purchase such complexes to make money...not on the rent, that only pays for the upkeep of the property and the loan...on the eventual sale of the property which is worth more than it was before. If ANY landlord decides to improve the property, they will do as cheaply as possible considering the rental market (other apartment complexes are competitors to you!). Installing charging stations and taking away parking spaces as required to do it is VERY expensive. The only way this can be justified is by charging outrageous rent. There will be few renters and your property will sit largely empty as renters go to someplace cheaper without chargers.

Landlords have to make money too. They need to eat too. Despite bring rich on paper, it's tied up in that property. They have no access to it until they sell.

 

[Into the Night]

Once you got one electrical line, it is easy enough to pull through another electrical line. I have done it myself, and I reassure you that any electrician can do the same.

TANSTAAFL. You cannot create energy out of nothing. Adding another circuit does NOT add capacity. You are also likely exceeding the electrical code.

Even if you could not, it would just delay the improvement, not make the improvement impossible.

Chargers are high amperage circuits. You can't just create that capacity out of nothing.

I have lived in pre-electrical apartments,

BULLSHIT. There isn't any such thing in the U.S.

that had electricity added later(well before I moved in, but after they were built). Electricity can be added.

To add a service necessary to cope with that kind of load is EXPENSIVE.

There is no requirement for electrical wires to not be overhead.

There IS a requirement they be in a conduit though! I suggest you take a look at a charging station you might find at a mall, or at apartment complexes that might have a wall outlet near the parking spaces. You will also need additional transformers(!) and primary taps.

I wish there was, I prefer underground conduits, but there is not.

Fine. Who's gonna pay for it?

Random side point: the entire Denver Airport had all its electricity coming through a single conduit,

No, it didn't. Each terminal is fed by it's own conduit and even it's own transformer. So are the runway and taxi lights. Denver airport buries that conduit beneath the centerline of the runway and along either side of it. Denver's runways have centerlit markers.

so I assure you that it is possible for more than one car to be charged through a single conduit.

Sure. He never said otherwise. You cannot charge a whole parking lot of them that way though!

 

[Into the Night]

Bullshit! Parking lot lighting is usually run in 1/2" EMT or NMC, 3/4" at most. Decent charging stations require 1" minimum and 1 1/2" preferably if the run is over 100 feet.



I call bullshit on that too. It may have had it run through a concrete cable trough, but it didn't go through a single conduit. The largest trade size conduit is 6" diameter and that allows for still just three current carrying conductors to be used. I've personally installed far smaller industrial load centers and those had 4 to 6 4" NMC conduit run to them.

Denver airport has TWO service entrances for each building (one for each end), and another for outlying loads (such as the runway, taxiway, and ramp lighting). The swastika like layout of the airport's runways make handling the jets more efficient, but it DOES cover a large bit of real estate to do it (why it's further out in the prairie!). That DOES mean some extremely long cable runs though, some of them are two miles long! Yes, they are using heavily derated conduit runs for those and loads on them are kept to a minimum!

The control tower has it's own transformer AND a modest battery backup system to keep communications radios functioning in the event of a general power failure. The batteries will last long enough to get nearby aircraft on the ground and to submit a reroute to FAA computers for any enroute aircraft to direct them to other airports.

The primary feed to each building runs in it's own conduit and contains the 7.2kv lines. Additional lines are brought in to run the inter-terminal transit system, running on it's own series of transformers and rectifier bank. Balancing capacitors are installed just offsite where the lines enter the property at the substation feeding the airport. You can see them as you arrive at the airport. Yes...Denver airport has it's own substation.

 

[Into the Night]

No, coats and such reduce the rate of heat transfer between two points of matter. Q = m(T1 - T2)

There is no such thing as 'heat transfer'. Heat IS transfer. You are being redundant.
I guess you are ignoring 'm' (which the conductive heat index, which is reduced for thermal insulators such as coats and blankets).

Coats and blankets work by reducing heat. Think of them as higher value resistors, reducing current or as a small pipe causing more resistance to flow than a large one. It's the same principle.


Putting a coat or a blanket on a rock does not make the rock warmer. Putting a resistor in a dead circuit does not reduce any current. Again, the same principle applies.


The human body is 'warm blooded', in other words, we regulate our own body temperature, using the food we eat as the power source. Most of our metabolism is dedicated to maintaining body temperature. It does have only a limited amount of capability to do that. Our bodies heat the environment around us (except on very hot days). Because of this, it's easy on colder days and environments to exceed the body's ability to heat itself. Coats and blankets are the solution. By reducing heat, they also reduce the amount of energy we need to expend to maintain our own body heat. It's like getting a battery to last longer by reducing the current using resistors. You are not warmed by a blanket because your body heat is regulated. We don't use blankets and coats on hot days because that reduces heat too much, overwhelming the body's ability to cool itself. Over temperature can be deadly. We call it 'heat stroke'. Under temperature can be deadly. We call it 'exposure'.

Other critters, such as snakes, lizards, insects, etc. are 'cold blooded', meaning they don't regulate their own body temperature. Such critters are essentially 'solar powered', basking in the Sun to warm up, and conserving their energy expenditure as much as possible. The little food they DO eat does get converted into warmer temperature, but it's not a regulated body heat. Putting a blanket on them WILL reduce heat for them too, meaning they will actually be warmer, but they really don't care much.

Again, putting a blanket or coat on a rock does not heat the rock.

Now let's turn to CO2 again. CO2 happens to be a good thermal conductor (it's value of 'm' is higher'). This is one of the reasons it makes a good fire extinguisher. It not only supplants oxygen from getting to the fire, it chills the burning material (breaking the fire triangle in two places!) and leaves no lasting residue. It can be used on A, B, C, and K fires as well as some class D fires. They are my preferred fire extinguisher for all installations for this reason. The only downside is that it requires a sturdier tank.

The space around Earth is an excellent thermal insulator. Effectively, thermal conduction does not occur in space. As far as the Church of Global Warming is concerned, thermal conductivity and coats and blankets are just strawmen arguments.

 

[Into the Night]

Apartment complex owners would be stupid to install them. They would be 'common property' and the responsibility of the complex owner(s). Why take on that added risk? Why take on the added cost of installation, insurance, and upkeep? They would be fools to do so. The cost of the rent would necessarily increase too. That doesn't bode well for low-income renters.

I doubt there are many landlords willing to spend tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on charging stations. Better to tell the renters to charge somewhere else than pay out all that money.

Bingo. It's risk enough just to run the apartment complex as it is. There is always someone willing to sue you for some inane reason. Landlords already spend enough time in court (many don't bother with lawyers anymore because the inanity from the renters is so repetitive).

If an EV catches fire while it's on the charger, gets who is going to get blamed for it? Yup...the landlord. Guess who gets to pay for all the cars and the parking lot that burned in the process? Yup...the landlord.

No thanks.