The $15 Minimum Wage Moves Social Security To Solvency

[Flash]

Apparently, they don't need help. You are making up a scenario to fit your preconceptions. The 15 will be gradually installed. Working costs money. You need childcare, transportation, food, and work clothes. You seem to not give any thought to the worker.

That is not a made up scenario but the older man and wife (both with medical problems) who ran the small cafe at the college where I worked for 40 years. They could not handle the breakfast-lunch crowd alone and needed a student worker who was partially subsidized. They took their food truck to events on week-ends to make a living.

To tell that couple they could not have a business because they could not afford $15.00 an hour (more than they made together) is not caring about the worker. FDR had no clue what the small worker goes through.

The best advice to give to (potential) workers is to get training, education, or experience to qualify for a living wage. Not only do they make more money but they get better benefits and probably have more job satisfaction. That is caring about the worker---not just giving him more money by possibly hurting small business owners.

 

[Flash]

Wow, that business would really be helped if we could just reintroduce slavery. We could go to high schools, and capture slaves for them. They would not have to pay anything in salaries, and only throw the newly enslaved teenagers a crust of bread every now and then...

Or we could allow the creative destruction of the market to replace terrible businesses with better ones.

Workers can always choose to go to the ones that pay better. Teenagers almost run many of the small fast food and other businesses today and many do so at less than $15.00 per hour. As the other 2.5% of workers who make minimum wage they are mostly below 25 and not the primary breadwinner in the family. Workers need to meet employers at least half way rather than just saying anybody who works will make a living wage without regard to their experience or job skill.

How did you determine $15.00 is a living wage?

 

[Yakuda]

That is not a made up scenario but the older man and wife (both with medical problems) who ran the small cafe at the college where I worked for 40 years. They could not handle the breakfast-lunch crowd alone and needed a student worker who was partially subsidized. They took their food truck to events on week-ends to make a living.

To tell that couple they could not have a business because they could not afford $15.00 an hour (more than they made together) is not caring about the worker. FDR had no clue what the small worker goes through.

The best advice to give to (potential) workers is to get training, education, or experience to qualify for a living wage. Not only do they make more money but they get better benefits and probably have more job satisfaction. That is caring about the worker---not just giving him more money by possibly hurting small business owners.

Whenever the govt artificially set the price of anything it makes things worse. The thing is I don't believe the left actually cares about the people effected by their decisions.

 

[Flash]

Whenever the govt artificially set the price of anything it makes things worse. The thing is I don't believe the left actually cares about the people effected by their decisions.

Some seem more concerned in sticking it to businesses rather than helping the worker. When they say businesses which cannot afford to pay $15 per hour do not deserve to exist certainly care nothing about small businesses in America. Some of those small businesses might be successful big businesses someday.

Would the $15 per hour apply to all workers, because the current federal minimum wage does not. Would these same exemptions apply?

"The minimum wage law (the FLSA) applies to employees of enterprises that have annual gross volume of sales or business done of at least $500,000. It also applies to employees of smaller firms if the employees are engaged in interstate commerce or in the production of goods for commerce."

"The FLSA contains a number of exemptions from the minimum wage that may apply to some workers."

"A minimum wage of $4.25 per hour applies to young workers under the age of 20 during their first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer, as long as their work does not displace other workers."

"The Full-time Student Program is for full-time students employed in retail or service stores, agriculture, or colleges and universities. The employer that hires students can obtain a certificate from the Department of Labor which allows the student to be paid not less than 85% of the minimum wage."

"program is for high school students at least 16 years old who are enrolled in vocational education (shop courses). The employer that hires the student can obtain a certificate from the Department of Labor which allows the student to be paid not less than 75% of the minimum wage, for as long as the student is enrolled in the vocational education program."

 

[Yakuda]

Some seem more concerned in sticking it to businesses rather than helping the worker. When they say businesses which cannot afford to pay $15 per hour do not deserve to exist certainly care nothing about small businesses in America. Some of those small businesses might be successful big businesses someday.

Would the $15 per hour apply to all workers, because the current federal minimum wage does not. Would these same exemptions apply?

"The minimum wage law (the FLSA) applies to employees of enterprises that have annual gross volume of sales or business done of at least $500,000. It also applies to employees of smaller firms if the employees are engaged in interstate commerce or in the production of goods for commerce."

"The FLSA contains a number of exemptions from the minimum wage that may apply to some workers."

"A minimum wage of $4.25 per hour applies to young workers under the age of 20 during their first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer, as long as their work does not displace other workers."

"The Full-time Student Program is for full-time students employed in retail or service stores, agriculture, or colleges and universities. The employer that hires students can obtain a certificate from the Department of Labor which allows the student to be paid not less than 85% of the minimum wage."

"program is for high school students at least 16 years old who are enrolled in vocational education (shop courses). The employer that hires the student can obtain a certificate from the Department of Labor which allows the student to be paid not less than 75% of the minimum wage, for as long as the student is enrolled in the vocational education program."

They don't care about the workers either. They are more vocal with their disregard for business but their actions tell us what they really think of workers, pawns in their consolidation of power.

What the left has done is what marx wasn't quite savvy enough to do and that is "nationalize" business through regulation instead of outright confiscation. The leftist govt says you can run your business as long as you do it our way. It's like the mob, "Nice business you have here, it would be a shame if you had an electrical fire". They are evil pricks

 

[Flash]

"The median income for individuals self-employed at their own incorporated businesses was $49,804 in 2015. For individuals self-employed at their own unincorporated firms, this figure was $22,424. (Source: ACS)

https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/advocacy/All_States.pdf

 

[Walt]

How did you determine $15.00 is a living wage?

I did not. Economists have found that 50% of average wages gives the best growth to the economy and to employment. $15 is on the low side for that, but better to come in low for a while. It is about having a growing economy, rather than the third world economy you are aiming for.

 

[Flash]

I did not. Economists have found that 50% of average wages gives the best growth to the economy and to employment. $15 is on the low side for that, but better to come in low for a while. It is about having a growing economy, rather than the third world economy you are aiming for.

The original .25 minimum wage in 1938 is $4.73 in today's dollars---much lower than $7.25. Have we had a third world economy since 1938? Saying I am aiming for a third world economy is a strawman stereotype. I am trying to save small businesses and the jobs for all their employees. The median salary for self-employed unincorporated business owners is only $22,424 which is less than the $15.00 per hour their employees will make. When small business owners and their employees have lost their jobs is when you have a third world economy.

Or, do you want the law to stay the same as today when those businesses making less than $500,000 do not have to pay the minimum wage?

 

[Walt]

The original .25 minimum wage in 1938 is $4.73 in today's dollars

And our economy has grown quite a bit since then. In 1968, the minimum wage was $1.60(nearly $12 in todays money), and again, we have grown quite a bit since then. It should be higher than $12 by now. $7.25 is an insult, and comparing it to how bad things were 80 years ago does not make it better.

Have we had a third world economy since 1938?

If the best we could say about America was that it had the economy, and technological advancements of 1938, in the year 2021, then yes, we would be a third world economy. Being a first world economy is a moving target. If we are falling behind, then, yes, we are becoming a third world economy.

I am trying to save small businesses and the jobs for all their employees.

The whole point of the creative self destruction of capitalism is the more you try to save the small businesses, the worse damage you do. For every failing small business you save, you destroy another successful small business that would have been created in the failed small businesses place.

 

[Flash]

And our economy has grown quite a bit since then. In 1968, the minimum wage was $1.60(nearly $12 in todays money), and again, we have grown quite a bit since then. It should be higher than $12 by now. $7.25 is an insult, and comparing it to how bad things were 80 years ago does not make it better.

You cherry pick 1968 which is the high mark for the minimum wage. If you tied the minimum wage to inflation from the time of its creation you would only be making $4.73 today. I think about half the states have a wage above the federal minimum.

If the best we could say about America was that it had the economy, and technological advancements of 1938, in the year 2021, then yes, we would be a third world economy. Being a first world economy is a moving target. If we are falling behind, then, yes, we are becoming a third world economy.

If we are third world what countries are first world? Most of the European countries do not have a minimum wage above about $12 and many are lower. Denmark, Finland, Sweden, and Austria do not have a minimum wage.

Is communism still the second world? Do you put the U. S. below those nations?

The whole point of the creative self destruction of capitalism is the more you try to save the small businesses, the worse damage you do. For every failing small business you save, you destroy another successful small business that would have been created in the failed small businesses place.

You don't try to save small businesses, you just don't pass regulations which put them out of business. If it fails, which most of them do, then it fails. One business does not prevent another one from being created in its place.

 

[Walt]

You cherry pick 1968 which is the high mark for the minimum wage.

Imagine we said that 1968 was the high point for the American economy? A growing economy should always have the high point right at the present, or just in the recent past. There are hick ups in even a growing economy, so right now the highest point was at the beginning of 2020, but that is the recent past. Soon the highest point in the American economy will be right now again.

If the highest point in the economy was 1968, we would be a nation in decline for over 70 years. It would be a disaster. If 1968 was the highest point in the stock market, we would have a stock market in decline for 70 years.

And because 1968 was the highest point in minimum wage, we are a nation with worsening poverty among the working poor for 70 years. That is just a fact. Government programs have done a bit to mask that problem, but it is definitely here.

If you tied the minimum wage to inflation from the time of its creation you would only be making $4.73 today.

If you tied minimum wage to inflation in 1938, and expected people to live a 1938 lifestyle, then yes. You would need to cut all the economic growth since 1938, and put us on what we consider to be a third world economy today.

This is not a sane goal.

 

[Nordberg]

Elevating the min, wage creates a surge in demand. Demand is what fuels the economy and results in hiring and expansion. So it helps cut unemployment. It also takes away most of the need for welfare and food stamps. The government can provide less assistance.
The difference between the 8 bucks and the 15 that it should have grown into,is in the pockets of owners and the wealthy. That is why it has not been raised.

 

[Flash]

Imagine we said that 1968 was the high point for the American economy? A growing economy should always have the high point right at the present, or just in the recent past. There are hick ups in even a growing economy, so right now the highest point was at the beginning of 2020, but that is the recent past. Soon the highest point in the American economy will be right now again.

If the highest point in the economy was 1968, we would be a nation in decline for over 70 years. It would be a disaster. If 1968 was the highest point in the stock market, we would have a stock market in decline for 70 years.

And because 1968 was the highest point in minimum wage, we are a nation with worsening poverty among the working poor for 70 years. That is just a fact. Government programs have done a bit to mask that problem, but it is definitely here.

We don't measure the state of the economy by just the minimum wage. The $1.60 minimum wage in 1968 is worth $12.28 today. The nationwide effective minimum wage was $11.80 in 2019--not that different from $12.28. And that does not include many of the benefits offered today for those workers--EITC, Medicaid, child tax credit...

Also, there has not been worsening poverty for 70 years:

"An annual report from the Census Bureau shows median household income jumped 6.8% in 2019, to $68,700. That's the highest since the government started keeping track in 1967.

The poverty rate declined to 10.5% — the lowest since records began in 1959."

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2020/income-poverty.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...an-incomes-were-rising-until-the-pandemic-hit

 

[Into the Night]

Think about it.

All those low wage workers will be earning more. They will be getting bigger paychecks. Those checks will have withholding taken out of them. There will be more money going into Social Security. That will help move SS more towards solvency.

It will do no such thing. SS problems are unrelated to what people are earning.

Raising minimum wage puts people out of work.

 

[Into the Night]

The $15 min wage is one of the best things we can do to help Americans improve their lives.

How does putting people out of work improve their lives??

 

[Into the Night]

That is not a made up scenario but the older man and wife (both with medical problems) who ran the small cafe at the college where I worked for 40 years. They could not handle the breakfast-lunch crowd alone and needed a student worker who was partially subsidized. They took their food truck to events on week-ends to make a living.

To tell that couple they could not have a business because they could not afford $15.00 an hour (more than they made together) is not caring about the worker. FDR had no clue what the small worker goes through.

The best advice to give to (potential) workers is to get training, education, or experience to qualify for a living wage. Not only do they make more money but they get better benefits and probably have more job satisfaction. That is caring about the worker---not just giving him more money by possibly hurting small business owners.

$15/hr is not welfare. It is not giving anybody anything. It is a wage. It is price controls. Like any price control, it causes shortages. In this case, available jobs.

 

[Into the Night]

I did not. Economists have found that 50% of average wages gives the best growth to the economy and to employment. $15 is on the low side for that, but better to come in low for a while. It is about having a growing economy, rather than the third world economy you are aiming for.

You don't get to speak for economists. They don't say the same thing either. Bigotry. Price controls cause job losses. That is not improving the economy.

 

[Into the Night]

And our economy has grown quite a bit since then. In 1968, the minimum wage was $1.60(nearly $12 in todays money), and again, we have grown quite a bit since then. It should be higher than $12 by now. $7.25 is an insult, and comparing it to how bad things were 80 years ago does not make it better.



If the best we could say about America was that it had the economy, and technological advancements of 1938, in the year 2021, then yes, we would be a third world economy. Being a first world economy is a moving target. If we are falling behind, then, yes, we are becoming a third world economy.



The whole point of the creative self destruction of capitalism is the more you try to save the small businesses, the worse damage you do. For every failing small business you save, you destroy another successful small business that would have been created in the failed small businesses place.

The economy didn't grow because of minimum wage laws.

 

[Into the Night]

Imagine we said that 1968 was the high point for the American economy? A growing economy should always have the high point right at the present, or just in the recent past. There are hick ups in even a growing economy, so right now the highest point was at the beginning of 2020, but that is the recent past. Soon the highest point in the American economy will be right now again.

If the highest point in the economy was 1968, we would be a nation in decline for over 70 years. It would be a disaster. If 1968 was the highest point in the stock market, we would have a stock market in decline for 70 years.

And because 1968 was the highest point in minimum wage, we are a nation with worsening poverty among the working poor for 70 years. That is just a fact. Government programs have done a bit to mask that problem, but it is definitely here.



If you tied minimum wage to inflation in 1938, and expected people to live a 1938 lifestyle, then yes. You would need to cut all the economic growth since 1938, and put us on what we consider to be a third world economy today.

This is not a sane goal.

Define 'growing economy'. What number is changing?

 

[Flash]

$15/hr is not welfare. It is not giving anybody anything. It is a wage.

Agreed. But this has nothing to do with anything I posted.