The depth of what Reid said.

Damocles said:
That would be the implication in the "no negro dialect" portion of his statement. Quit being so deliberately obtuse. Light hyperbole as sarcasm is acceptable in any conversation, even here.
Click to expand...

That is what you pretend to assume based on his comments. You, however are pretending to not know his meaning by "negro dialect". Everyone on the planet knows what he ment.

If I said that Jane Fonda does not speak with a "Southern Dialect" you would not assume that I was saying that ALL Southerners speak with a Southern Dialect", and you would know exactly what I was talking about when I said "southern dialect"!
 
Damocles said:
And your insisting that the people here must speak it because you find websites on "negro dialect" doesn't mean that I am incorrect that black people tend to speak normally here. It would be more surprising to run into some dude who couldn't do that "amazing" feat of speaking with "no negro dialect"...

(BTW - I compared it to a dialect because that is what it was called. The southern drawl is a dialect.)
Click to expand...

NOONE has suggested that people in Colorado speak in any dialect!
 
Jarod said:
That is what you pretend to assume based on his comments. You, however are pretending to not know his meaning by "negro dialect". Everyone on the planet knows what he ment.

If I said that Jane Fonda does not speak with a "Southern Dialect" you would not assume that I was saying that ALL Southerners speak with a Southern Dialect", and you would know exactly what I was talking about when I said "southern dialect"!
Click to expand...
Where did I say I "didn't know" his meaning? That is just false.
 
Jarod said:
So you admit that a "negro dialect" does exist in your mind?
Click to expand...
You have got to be kidding. I admit that people who are racially insensitive call a vernacular a dialect, more particularly one that they label "negro"...

Those same people are also "amazed" and find black people "eloquent" when they speak without that particular vernacular.

My point is that every black person I know doesn't speak with this "dialect".
 
Damocles said:
You have got to be kidding. I admit that people who are racially insensitive call a vernacular a dialect, more particularly one that they label "negro"...
Click to expand...

So its racially insensitive to call a vernacular a dialect when most people do not know the difference? Its racially insensitive to discuss something that truely does exist?
 
Jarod said:
So its racially insensitive to call a vernacular a dialect when most people do not know the difference? Its racially insensitive to discuss something that truely does exist?
Click to expand...
No. It is racially insensitive to call it a "negro dialect" (dialect is learned from birth and more often than not takes great effort to overcome because it is actually how you learned to speak the language, vernacular is phraseology and takes no effort at all, it is simply slang) and think that it is a qualification to be able to speak in it or not "at will"... (Anybody with knowledge of the vernacular would be able to do this, including Reid if he actually took the time to learn).

The man is a moron who clearly knows almost nobody of color.

Tell me, what is the "dialect" that "negroes" speak in, please?
 
NigelTufnel said:
Yes, I am involved in a huge conspiracy among linguists in creating Black Vernacular English because I want to defend a politician I don't particularly care for. You caught me.

And in comparing what I am talking about to a southern drawl just shows your ignorance on the matter. Do a little poking around of "Black Vernacular English" and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Reid didn't comment on "Black Vernacular English", his term was "negro dialect". I think his choice of words and what he meant by them, are important in understanding why so many people find it offensive. If you don't realize that, it's probably because you don't really see anything wrong with what he said.

I think this whole thing has been great for getting it out in the open and showing the world what democrats really believe. The fact that you don't seem to be all that outraged over racially offensive remarks made by Reid, and you certainly don't feel it is worthy of him losing his leadership position, tells us all we need to know about your mindset and principles. Just the sheer effort being put in to defending Reid and 'justifying' his comments, or worse yet... pulling the old liberal tactic of trying to defer blame for Reid's thoughts onto "racist red-state America!" That was the kicker! It never fails... a liberal sticks his foot in his mouth and says something racist, and suddenly, he was talking about all us red-state racists who think that way!
 
Damocles said:
And your insisting that the people here must speak it because you find websites on "negro dialect" doesn't mean that I am incorrect that black people tend to speak normally here. It would be more surprising to run into some dude who couldn't do that "amazing" feat of speaking with "no negro dialect"...

(BTW - I compared it to a dialect because that is what it was called. The southern drawl is a dialect.)
Click to expand...


First of all, I'm not insisting that people must speak Black English in Colorado. I am insisting that it shouldn't be altogether surprising that a successful white guy doesn't have occasion to interact with folks speaking Black English and that your personal experience may not be representative of the entirety of the black population in Colorado. Pretty uncontroversial stuff, really.

Second, I'm not suggesting that it is an "amazing feat" for a black person to speak Standard American English. Nor was Harry Reid. In fact, it is quite common for black people to engage in "code switching" based on social context. In fact, for this very reason it is unlikely that a successful black person that speaks Black English would use it when talking with white people.

Reid's problem is in the language he used, not in the idea he was conveying. First, if he said "Black English" instead of "Negro dialect" I doubt very seriously that his comment would have raised as much of a fuss. His use of the term "Negro" is the problem, not necessarily the idea that he is presenting (at least among most folks).
 
Damocles said:
That doesn't just happen there. Black people tend to speak the same as white people here too.
Click to expand...

Which is why I asked for an example of a state where a 'darker' black person would have had trouble if he was as good at public speaking as Obama. What states that Obama won would not have been won by a darker skinned black man with equal skills and qualifications???

Perhaps living here vs. the south has distorted my view on where race relations on the whole stand. But I simply do not see where a darker skinned black person would have had trouble in states Obama won.
 
this whole convo is rediculous and Harry is an idiot who clearly doesn't deal with educated or professional blacks very often.
 
Dixie said:
Reid didn't comment on "Black Vernacular English", his term was "negro dialect". I think his choice of words and what he meant by them, are important in understanding why so many people find it offensive. If you don't realize that, it's probably because you don't really see anything wrong with what he said.

I think this whole thing has been great for getting it out in the open and showing the world what democrats really believe. The fact that you don't seem to be all that outraged over racially offensive remarks made by Reid, and you certainly don't feel it is worthy of him losing his leadership position, tells us all we need to know about your mindset and principles. Just the sheer effort being put in to defending Reid and 'justifying' his comments, or worse yet... pulling the old liberal tactic of trying to defer blame for Reid's thoughts onto "racist red-state America!" That was the kicker! It never fails... a liberal sticks his foot in his mouth and says something racist, and suddenly, he was talking about all us red-state racists who think that way!
Click to expand...


I think it's hilarious that you sincerely believe that anyone values your opinion on this matter. Seriously.
 
NigelTufnel said:
First of all, I'm not insisting that people must speak Black English in Colorado. I am insisting that it shouldn't be altogether surprising that a successful white guy doesn't have occasion to interact with folks speaking Black English and that your personal experience may not be representative of the entirety of the black population in Colorado. Pretty uncontroversial stuff, really.

Second, I'm not suggesting that it is an "amazing feat" for a black person to speak Standard American English. Nor was Harry Reid. In fact, it is quite common for black people to engage in "code switching" based on social context. In fact, for this very reason it is unlikely that a successful black person that speaks Black English would use it when talking with white people.

Reid's problem is in the language he used, not in the idea he was conveying. First, if he said "Black English" instead of "Negro dialect" I doubt very seriously that his comment would have raised as much of a fuss. His use of the term "Negro" is the problem, not necessarily the idea that he is presenting (at least among most folks).
Click to expand...
Yes, had he said "black english" or even "vernacular" rather than "dialect" I doubt we'd be having a conversation about it now. Shoot, had he not used the word "negro" we'd likely have never heard of it.
 
Superfreak said:
Which is why I asked for an example of a state where a 'darker' black person would have had trouble if he was as good at public speaking as Obama. What states that Obama won would not have been won by a darker skinned black man with equal skills and qualifications???

Perhaps living here vs. the south has distorted my view on where race relations on the whole stand. But I simply do not see where a darker skinned black person would have had trouble in states Obama won.
Click to expand...
Sometimes this is true. Race relations are very different in CO than the south. However, if the dude had darker skin and could still throw down a speech like that I think he'd be able to win in every state he won... Maybe somebody could enlighten me.
 
Damocles said:
No. It is racially insensitive to call it a "negro dialect" (dialect is learned from birth and more often than not takes great effort to overcome, vernacular is phraseology and takes no effort at all, it is simply slang) and think that it is a qualification to be able to speak in it or not "at will"... (Anybody with knowledge of the vernacular would be able to do this, including Reid if he actually took the time to learn).

The man is a moron who clearly knows almost nobody of color.

Tell me, what is the "dialect" that "negroes" speak in, please?
Click to expand...

While I disagree, FINALLY someone was able to make a valid argument that what he said was racist... You win the prize as the only conservative in the discussion able to do that, the others were just following the leader.

I disagree...

1) I suspect Reid was using the term Dialect interchangable with the term vernacular incorrectly.

2) Many very intelegent black people grow up in a family that speaks based on different grammer rules than others, its been called ebonics, if you grew up using that dialect, you have a hard time learning to speak differently. President Obama was raised by a white family that used the "standard" grammer rules and thus speeks using those rules. He has learned to speak differently when speaking to different groups. Its a very well used trick that polititians of all races have picked up on, thats what Reid was talking about. To point that out is not racist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top