The Dumbing of America

aeprga said:
Yeah, the real learnin' is in business school.
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Superfreak said:
The ignorance of the above is astounding.
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Sun Devil said:
Sardonic not serious but um yeah fuck racist!
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aeprga said:
Business school is for people that think it'll help them earn lots of money right out of college who aren't smart enough to realize it won't.
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Superfreak said:
Awww... someone is feeling inferior. Liberal arts majors were a joke on campus. The intellectual capacity of Desh and ILA.
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http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3949704/
 
signalmankenneth said:
http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/the-dumbing-of-america/Content?oid=3583869

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The Dumbing Down of America
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Once upon a time, about 50 years ago, we had higher taxes and spent it on things like education and space exploration, which led to the technology and products we enjoy today.

But now, a majority of high school biology teachers don’t even teach evolution, ranking us 34th out of 35 developed nations. Next thing you know, we’ll be giving equal time to the flat earth advocates.
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When I was living in the Carolinas I interviewed for a teachers position with Mecklenburg Co schools as a high school biology teacher. They tendered me an offer but I turned it down. The low pay was the primary reason but in the interview process the subject of teaching evolutionary theory was brought up and it was implied that they would prefer the subject not be taught because of the political implications. That played a role too in my turning the position down and I told them so. That I know that it is impossible to provide a sound education if I did not competently teach one of the most fundamental and foundational concepts of Biology. To use an analogy it would be like trying to teach kids biology without teaching them cell theory.
 
1966stang said:
This is a huge problem. No offense, but look at the illiterate bigoted anti scientific trolls we have that post here. There are sadly millions of Americans just like them.
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America has a love/hate relationship with science. They absolutely love the technology that science provides and how it improves our quality of life but far, far to many distrust both science and scientist. You can see that in how the popular media portrays scientist as primarily socially retarded geeks.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
America has a love/hate relationship with science. They absolutely love the technology that science provides and how it improves our quality of life but far, far to many distrust both science and scientist. You can see that in how the popular media portrays scientist as primarily socially retarded geeks.
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Absolutely. What I don't understand is why so many people are afraid of it, or feel the need to lie to themselves about political issues.
 
1966stang said:
Absolutely. What I don't understand is why so many people are afraid of it, or feel the need to lie to themselves about political issues.
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If you like your healthcare, you can keep your healthcare.. Benghazi was over a movie and the man responsible is in jail.. Shovel ready jobs.. Attended college as a foreign exchange student..
 
leaningright said:
The article starts out with outrageous statements that turns anyone but a flaming liberal off immediately. But if you stay with it you get to read some real gems, ending with the following few paragraphs which are, for lack of a better descriptor, baloney.

"But this is also part of the problem: the monetizing of higher education, as if the potential increase in wages is the most important metric of going to college. The liberal arts are especially under seige. Why study literature or history, anyway? Parents ask, "How will this degree help my kid get a job?" Of course, they want a return on investment.

But a liberal arts education, given the new work environment of the 21st century, when people will have multiple career trajectories during their lives, may be more crucial than ever. It trains students to probe and ask questions; to look at more than one side of an argument; to open their hearts and minds to other worldviews; to do research to try to figure out the best solutions to problems; to develop analytical thinking; to write and speak clearly and forcefully; to accept failure as part of the process of success; and to be flexible in adapting to new work routines and challenges.

This habit of mind — adaptive, open to new ideas and challenges, accepting of difference, understanding of history — is exactly what young people need to succeed now more than ever, and precisely what the defunders of higher education do not want young people to acquire."

Seriously, why go to college other than to better yourself financially unless you're already affluent? Of course parents want their kid to go to college to get skills and expect them to get out and be able to get a job ... and that's why you don't ... I repeat, don't encourage a liberal arts degree.
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Baloney LR. Just pure baloney. I didn't take a liberal arts major but I value each and everyone of the liberal arts classes I took. They have provided me with just exactly the skills that the author is stating. I didn't learn job skills as an undergraduate. I learned how to learn and I learned it well. That has has significant payoff for me both financially and in terms of my quality of life. I can appreciate and enjoy many things about life that I would not or could not had I not recieved a well rounded liberal arts education. With out which I'd only be a very skilled technocrat.

Now that is not to denounce the importance of learning marketable skills, those are, to state the obvious, very important too. Afluence is a personal goal. What better way can an education prepare one to achieve that goal than through a well rounded liberal arts education? You also sell liberal arts short. My investment advisor makes more money by far than I ever will with my technical job (and my pay doesn't suck at all) and his degree was in Philosophy. A friend of my fathers is an accomplished emergency room surgeon. Her undergraduate degree was a BA in English Literature though she did go to a very prestigious liberal arts school (Oberlin College). My brother was very involved in the arts in his community. Most of his friends were artist. Most of them make more money than I do. Several were extremely wealthy. Another friend of mine recieved a dual degree in art and devinity from Mount Vernon Nazarene College. He's the pastor of a mid sized church in Lancaster. He spent years as a commercial artist and made darned good money but was very unhappy until he decided to become a pastor. Now he's one of the happiest people I know even though he makes significantly less money now...and he's about as far from being a liberal as you can get!

Point being being liberal or conservative has absolutely nothing to do with being able to value a liberal arts education.
 
The best summation I've ever read about the importance of a liberal arts education was writen by Robert A. Heinlein. Hardly a liberal.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
— Robert Heinlein
 
Superfreak said:
Far more beneficial knowledge is gained there than in a liberal arts program.

Economics, finance, accounting, marketing... yeah... what good could any of those a person in the real world.
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Ahh yes.....but think about all those liberal arts classes that you took that made you the well rounded, charming and gallant person we all know and love. :p
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Ahh yes.....but think about all those liberal arts classes that you took that made you the well rounded, charming and gallant person we all know and love. :p
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As I stated, the liberal arts classes are indeed good for rounding out an education... but one should not get a degree in liberal arts. Those classes should merely support real degrees.
 
leaningright said:
Kind of like that liberal arts degree...only different, right? Given the choice between the two I'd choose a business degree. The wife has one and it has helped her land numerous jobs before she met me. Now she doesn't have to work if she doesn't want to. She does, but at a job whose pay grade is way below her experience. ... because she wants to.
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If that makes you happy more power to you. But what if your love is for art or history or literature? What if you have a gift for writing or music? Are you telling me that a person with these gifts and a quality liberal arts education cannot succeed and be affluent? That's just nonsense. You can't measure all success by the almighty dollar. I make good money doing what I do and yes, I was a science major but one of the reasons I chose biology is not only do I have an innate love and talent for the subject but that I knew I could learn skills that would give me the ability to help people. The fact that I also make a very good living is also great but it's not all about the money!
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... how is liberal arts the most well rounded?

You still have basic liberal arts classes you take with other degrees, but you also come out with degrees that will help you in the real world.

That said, what liberal arts degree do you think makes you 'well rounded'???
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You are operating on a false premise. That a person with a liberal arts degree and real world skills are mutally exclusive. Liberal arts are like any other human endever. You get out of them what you put into them. People tend to sell art majors short, for example. It's actually one of the more demanding majors in college because you actually have to create and produce and at a high level and that my friend is not easy. Most of the people I know who studied art in college and have persued it diligently as a career are doing just fine from a career and financial standpoint and live very interesting, rewarding and productive lives.
 
Damocles said:
We force people to send their children to a government monopolized system and then the left complains when they aren't learning?

Our children is lernin'.... and they are exactly as smart as the system pushes them to become.
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LOL@ Damo....you know when you say stuff like that you remind me of the scene from one of the Simpson's episodes where Homer picks up Maggy from the Ayn Rand Day Care Center. ;)
 
leaningright said:
First, I do agree a bit. One size does not fit all but one size is much more apt to open job opportunities. If I don't have to worry about making a living I'd have loved to "round" my education a bit. But I don't come from money and I knew I had four years of support before I was expected to become productive. Liberal arts was out of the question. In fact a bachelors of arts was out of the question as far as I was concerned. I looked at the options and chose based on what would most likely provide me (and any future family) with a living. Now in the 25+ years since college, after I have become more financially stable, I have done what I can to "round" my education but my son will not be pushed in the direction of a liberal arts degree as the job market ain't changed that much. In fact a LA degree may well be less in demand than it was 30 years ago.
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Again, I say nonsense. The reason a lot of liberal arts majors don't succeed is the reason why most people don't suceed. They take these majors at third rate school with fourth rate programs and they don't apply themselves. There are many opportunities for those with a solid liberal arts education if it is rigerous and they apply themselves. I have known just to many who have succeeded in these fields to buy your arguments and they come from working class backgrounds like you and I. Maybe you are lacking in imagination about the avenues that are open to motivated people in these fields.
 
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