the Founding Fathers were all Liberals

Hello Dirt McGirt,

Dirt McGirt said:
Don’t know. I don’t concern myself with British politics past the 1783 treaty of Paris.

I do know that modern American liberals have as much in common with the founders as a hammer does with a vacuum cleaner.
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A hammer and a vacuum cleaner.

Both are:

Tools
Man made
Include metal components
Found in most homes
Used for home improvement
Rarely lost
Sold and traded as used articles
Considered essential to modern American lifestyle
Used and abused in utilitarian purpose
Owned for function not image
Could cause injury if used improperly
Humans using them are scary to cats
Can be used for more than one purpose
Require little instruction for use
Invented by humans
 
cawacko said:
Not too many times I do a double take on positions taken on JPP but this thread qualifies.

In the last couple of years we’ve had movements across the country to change the name of statues named after Founders and Lincoln. We’ve had movements to rename schools named after Founders and Lincoln. We’ve had the 1619 Project win national awards with the claim the revolution wasn’t fought for independence rather to keep slavery.

As the argument goes our founders were slave owning racist white men who created a country based on white supremacy.

Yet we have people arguing they were liberals in the sense of how we used the word politically in America today?

I’ve done seen it all.
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Didja see the thread where Australia is paying reparations because of forced assimilation? Let me get this straight - apartheid is racist yet reparations are being paid because of assimilation. Yes, we’ve seen it all.:doh:
 
Scant few breakthroughs and revolutionary events are the result of conservatism, restraint or moderation. It's nearly axiomatic.

Einstein was a wild haired freak!!!
 
Jack said:
Liberals owned Slaves, who knew?
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Anyone who knows a sliver of history knew. If you knew a bit more than a sliver you would also know the liberal ideals enunciated by John Locke were the intellectual foundation of the Revolution.
 
martin said:
Anyone who knows a sliver of history knew. If you knew a bit more than a sliver you would also know the liberal ideals enunciated by John Locke were the intellectual foundation of the Revolution.
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I would agree that is part of it.
I view it as a newly born 'Corporate State' realizing 'Kings' and 'State Religion' were unneeded and obstacles to a 'Free People'.
 
Abraham Lincoln was the son of a dirt poor share-cropper, yet he managed to become the 16th president and end slavery.

He didn't set out to do that. He simply recognized that slavery was wrong, so he didn't want to see it expanded to the new States.

Lincoln was born in Kentucky, but his father moved to Indiana when Abraham was 7.

The reason Thomas Lincoln moved his family from Kentucky to Indiana was because he was a poor share cropper trying to work a family farm and he found it impossible to compete with slave farms.

This impressed young Abe, who spent his nights reading about George Washington and the other founding fathers by candlelight.

Ben Franklin's World Podcast: Episode 068: Richard Brookhiser, Founders’ Son: A Life of Abraham Lincoln

I bet that book would be a good read.

So would the books young Abe read by candlelight.

Warning: Listening to, or reading this material might make you a liberal.
 
" Lincoln was a loving and indulgent father and Mrs. Lincoln later wrote of him: "Mr. Lincoln was the kindest man and most loving husband and father in the world. He was very - exceedingly indulgent to his children. Chided or praised them for what they did - their acts, etc. He always said: "It is my pleasure that my children are free, happy and unrestrained by parental tyranny. Love is the chain whereby to bind a child to its parents.'""

Melania never said that about Donald.

National Park Service: A very brief history of Abe Lincoln

The author from the above podcast said that Lincoln's store not only went bust, but left him in debt which took years to pay off. And he did.

An honest liberal.
 
NikodemPoplawski said:
The Founding Fathers immigration act the Naturalization Act of 1790 stated that only free Whites of good character could become USA citizens.

Only 6% could vote in the first election being White property owning males.

Many of the founding fathers owned slaves too.
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Only 6% could vote in which election? There were no popular votes in the first few presidential elections.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Flash,



I think the best way to finance reparations would be to tax the rich, because they have benefited the most from inequity. It would be a very good thing to reduce poverty if more people can get over the hurdles to home ownership.
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Nicer than the French revolution which was a rapid redistribution of wealth. The people have limits.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Flash,

I think the best way to finance reparations would be to tax the rich, because they have benefited the most from inequity. It would be a very good thing to reduce poverty if more people can get over the hurdles to home ownership.
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Your solution usually involves something to punish the wealthy for their imagined evils--very Marxist class warfare.
 
Phantasmal said:
It’s because the Founders thought the general population to ignorant to make the choice.
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Morris: In wondering whether the revolution has gotten out of hand warned “…the mob (has) begun to think and reason.”

Gerry: In discussing the country’s problems said “...the evil we experience flow from the excesses of democracy.”

Mason: “It would be as unnatural ... to let the people choose the president as it would be to refer a trial of colors to a blind man.”

Hamilton: “The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact. The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge right.”

Sherman: “The people immediately should have as little to do as may be about the government.”

Gouverneur Morris: Morris argued for property qualifications for the voters and stated “give the votes to the people who have no property and they will sell them to the rich who will be able to buy them.”
 
Hello Flash,

Flash said:
Your solution usually involves something to punish the wealthy for their imagined evils--very Marxist class warfare.
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These are altruistic ideas that simply need to be funded. The poor have no resources to provide funding. The middle are capable, but it would usually involve a level of sacrifice to do it. And that leaves us with the rich.

It is not punishment when it represents zero impact on their lifestyle, but it can make such a huge difference to the disadvantaged. The rich have more money than they will ever spend during their lifetime. They are simply going to pass it on to the family. So, we are talking about people who stand to inherit great sums of wealth who will be inheriting less, but still a lot.

And for the most part, they have already been imparted with an upbringing which prepares them to be very successful in their own right.

What ever happened to the sense of accomplishment of having made your own way in the world? Bequeathing so much wealth on a person that they never even have to work in the first place completely removes the chance for them to 'make it on their own.'
 
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