The free markets at work...

the market does work but okay there are many market models norway and singapore come to mind Singapore, where the government owns most of the land and housing and a stake in most business is the American right's "capitalist ideal" Singapore, where the government owns most of the land and housing and a stake in most business is the American right's "capitalist ideal" https://boingboing.net/2018/03/11/capitalist-ideal.html
 
Althea said:
Libertarians are always ready to take the reins, now that the entire infrastructure has been paid for by the taxpayers. I can't think of any meaningful infrastructure project that was completed by the private sector. No profit...no interest.
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Selling off public infrastructure to private companies, and toll roads really bug me. Private companies profiting off public infrastructure that belongs to, and was built by taxpayers.

Private enterprise is great at creating consumer products: electronics, cars, appliances, phones, gadgets.

But public infrastructure, education, science and research, and health care are core societal needs that cannot be left to the vagaries of the profit motive.

I would go one step further than that: our nation's natural resources - oil, gas, minerals, water - should be a public resource held as a public trust, and used first and foremost for the benefit of the social welfare, and secondarily as a source for extracting profits. That is what the Norwegians do, and they do it quite well.

On another tangent, I am the first to express indignation at the gulag archipelago and the crimes against humanity perpetrated by Stalin, and Mao. But it needs to be acknowledged by everyone - including teabaggers - that throughout history, capitalism has caused more than its fair share of human misery and death.

Condemn communists’ cruelties, but capitalism has its own terrible record

Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism. Much of the wealth of London, Bristol and Liverpool – once the largest slave trading port in Europe – was made from the enslaved labour of Africans. The capital accumulated from slavery – from tobacco, cotton and sugar – drove the industrial revolution in Manchester and Lancashire; and several banks today can trace their origins to profits made from slavery.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model
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Cypress said:
Selling off public infrastructure to private companies, and toll roads really bug me. Private companies profiting off public infrastructure that belongs to, and was built by taxpayers.

Private enterprise is great at creating consumer products: electronics, cars, appliances, phones, gadgets.
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Those few roads that are privately owned are all suffering at the hands of profiteering. They don't make money, and they're now in disrepair.

But public infrastructure, education, science and research, and health care are core societal needs that cannot be left to the vagaries of the profit motive.
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That's where a Libertarian typically has to bow out of the debate. I have a client who has Fox News blasting all day long. He's in his seventies. Although I don't discuss politics with him for any reason, he did mention the other day that he leans Libertarian. I mentioned the issues you and I just posted, and he actually admitted that he can't argue against that point.

Small victory.

I would go one step further than that: our nation's natural resources - oil, gas, minerals, water - should be a public resource held as a public trust, and used first and foremost for the benefit of the social welfare, and secondarily as a source for extracting profits. That is what the Norwegians do, and they do it quite well.
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I've been saying that for more than a decade. Unfortunately, the wealthy have a stranglehold on our govt., and it will never happen.

On another tangent, I am the first to express indignation at the gulag archipelago and the crimes against humanity perpetrated by Stalin, and Mao. But it needs to be acknowledged by everyone - including teabaggers - that throughout history, capitalism has caused more than its fair share of human misery and death.
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It proves that a blend of multiple forms of govt/economies typically produces the best result.
 
Althea, so because you have a client who's in his 70's and watches Fox News (as if Fox News has anything to do with Libertarian economic theory) and this guy can't answer a few questions that means there is no Libertarian beliefs on those issues?

I guess that's one way to avoid actually researching a subject, just say "well this dude told me..." You are free to disagree with Libertarian beliefs on those topics but its pretty willfully ignorant to claim you don't know what they are seeing how easy it is to find them.
 
Althea said:
Those few roads that are privately owned are all suffering at the hands of profiteering. They don't make money, and they're now in disrepair.

That's where a Libertarian typically has to bow out of the debate. I have a client who has Fox News blasting all day long. He's in his seventies. Although I don't discuss politics with him for any reason, he did mention the other day that he leans Libertarian. I mentioned the issues you and I just posted, and he actually admitted that he can't argue against that point.

Small victory.

I've been saying that for more than a decade. Unfortunately, the wealthy have a stranglehold on our govt., and it will never happen.

It proves that a blend of multiple forms of govt/economies typically produces the best result.
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The western liberal welfare state is the most successful socio-economic model in human history. People like FDR recognized that capitalism, left to its own devices, causes an intolerable amount of human misery. Necessitating the need to put an iron grip of restraint and regulation on the free markets, and recognizing that the core needs of a nation cannot be trusted to the profit motive.

I think the argument can be made that the most admired, successful, and egalitarian socio-economic model in human history, are the liberal social welfare states of the Nordic countries.

Centuries ago, the first so called classical liberal economists assumed that pure human reason and self-interest could prevail to serve society's needs, and that government should get out of the way of the markets and the economy. Time has not been kind to these libertarian wet dreams, and there is no country on the planet that serves as a successful economic model of the kind American conservatives advocate for - aka, dismantling the New Deal, the Great Society, wholesale deregulation and privatization, and unleashing the magic of the free markets. It was always horseshit, and we knew it was horseshit over a century ago.
 
countryboy said:
No, I mean you should really try and convince people that child labor could actually come back. That's fucking HILARIOUS.:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

6bhi.gif
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if there are NO LAWS against it why would it not?
 
cawacko said:
Althea, so because you have a client who's in his 70's and watches Fox News (as if Fox News has anything to do with Libertarian economic theory) and this guy can't answer a few questions that means there is no Libertarian beliefs on those issues?

I guess that's one way to avoid actually researching a subject, just say "well this dude told me..." You are free to disagree with Libertarian beliefs on those topics but its pretty willfully ignorant to claim you don't know what they are seeing how easy it is to find them.
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You have NEVER answered them either you lying shit brick
 
evince said:
why do you pretend Capitalism can be unleashed and not create evils like child labor?


ITS HISTORICAL FACT
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Again, what does this have to do with Russo bot holes? Have your Ukrainian handlers cleared you to talk about other stuff? You'd better be careful, that's a good way to get dead. Ukraines don't fuck around.
 
countryboy said:
Again, what does this have to do with Russo bot holes? Have your Ukrainian handlers cleared you to talk about other stuff? You'd better be careful, that's a good way to get dead. Ukraines don't fuck around.
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this thread is about free markets asshole
 
evince said:
why do you pretend Capitalism can be unleashed and not create evils like child labor?


ITS HISTORICAL FACT
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To be clear, I do not think most individual Republicans want eight year old boys and girls to work 16 hours a day in inhumane conditions. But that is exactly what would happen when the profit motive takes root in an under-regulated capitalist economy.

The point is that the free markets - capitalism - left to its own devices results in exploitation, cruelty, inhumanity, for the benefit of a select few.

The conservatives who worship at the altar of the free market, and the conservatives who ever want to eliminate regulations, who relentlessly holler the slogan "get the government out of the way!", apparently forget the history of capitalism.

In my opinion, if you want to live without a framework of regulation and taxes, you really should consider moving to Somalia.

 
many who say it have no memory of the history teachers tried to tech them in school


There is NO CURE for an incurious mind


Many who spew it KNOW the facts they just lie to try and get what they want while thinking "fuck everyone else"
 
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist




Grover Norquist (born October 19, 1956) is an American political advocate, who is founder and president of Americans for Tax Reform, an organization that opposes all tax increases.

"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
Interview on NPR's Morning Edition, May 25, 2001
 
the right wants Democracy dead


they want a Parento world of the elite owning nearly everything and the 80% of the world to be living on slave wages
 
Cypress, you regularly create this strawman when discussing capitalism that supporters want zero regulations. That's just flat out false to the point of being dishonest. Why do you feel the need to lie about what others believe?

Libertarians believe there is a role for government in the overseeing of the economy. It may not be to the level you would prefer but it doesn't mean they don't want government to exist.
 
Cawacko, my writing is clearly very interesting to you, but I told you that I would never read or respond to you after you ran around the board falsely claiming I was a racist, without provocation, cause, or justification.

Bottom line is that Republicans have spent message board careers hollering for de-regulation, hollering for the roll back on the New Deal reforms, and claiming that the federal government has no role to play outside a conservative view of "enumerated rights".

If we followed that logic, we would revert to the cruel and inhumane capitalism that existed before FDR.
 
conditions that brought about Unions demanded by American workers who were being abused by such a system
 
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