The Plan, not a "theory"

These new world order people have given up fighting totalitarianism. they will accept totalitarianism...

You are the one misusing the term "totalitarianism" not the NWO people.

Implementing and promoting a concept of unified global trade superpowers, is not totalitarianism, it is a legitimate means to long-term stability in global markets, which will result in better economies for all, and perhaps an end to some 'totalitarianism' in other places.

It's amazing how you are transforming into a pinhead before our very eyes! You use the classic tactic of over-exaggeration and blowing things out of proportion, to make a more dramatic statement and add a sense of urgency to your stupidity. Stop yourself from reacting emotionally, and think about what is being discussed. This isn't about some devious sinister plot of capitalist pigs, to control the world! Please try to get that idea out of your head, and objectively evaluate what they are saying. I didn't originally agree with NAFTA or GATT, but after researching the message, and analyzing the details, I formed a different opinion on the whole thing. It requires looking at this from the perspective of global economics, and the trends developing in the world markets. I am not the best one to explain it, and you can find all kinds of opinions and viewpoints on this, but to refuse to educate yourself is just ignorance, and we can't really afford to not proceed down this road due to ignorance.

It's easy to create a 'boogyman' and get everyone worked up. It is easy to take something productive and legitimate, like PNAC, and turn it into some sinister evil conspiracy plot. People will buy it because they lack confidence and trust in their government, so it's easy to believe. When you factor in partisanship, and our natural inclination to follow the pack, these myths can quickly snowball, and there is no turning back. People convince themselves things must be this way, they've thought it for so long now, it must be true!

Free-thinking, requires you to separate yourself from partisanship, and evaluate things objectively. When I hear someone ranting about the New World Order, PNAC, etc... I see someone who has not objectively looked into these things, they have accepted some partisan opinion and made their minds up already.
 
Dixie said:
These new world order people have given up fighting totalitarianism. they will accept totalitarianism...

You are the one misusing the term "totalitarianism" not the NWO people.

Implementing and promoting a concept of unified global trade superpowers, is not totalitarianism, it is a legitimate means to long-term stability in global markets, which will result in better economies for all, and perhaps an end to some 'totalitarianism' in other places.
Click to expand...

Better economies? Who is an economy better for when slave labor is employed? Perhaps an end to totalitarianism? Perhaps? Freedom and individual rights used to be the moral underpinning of the west. Now it's economic growth by any means necessary, even at the expense of freedom? I envision something different, and reject your priorities and vision.

It's amazing how you are transforming into a pinhead before our very eyes! You use the classic tactic of over-exaggeration and blowing things out of proportion, to make a more dramatic statement and add a sense of urgency to your stupidity.
Click to expand...
No. I'm making total sense. You're just glossing over the realities of what you promote with nice sounding words and misprioritize morality and economic growth. You present things as "the only way" when there are other choices we could make.
Stop yourself from reacting emotionally, and think about what is being discussed. This isn't about some devious sinister plot of capitalist pigs, to control the world! Please try to get that idea out of your head, and objectively evaluate what they are saying. I didn't originally agree with NAFTA or GATT, but after researching the message, and analyzing the details, I formed a different opinion on the whole thing. It requires looking at this from the perspective of global economics, and the trends developing in the world markets. I am not the best one to explain it, and you can find all kinds of opinions and viewpoints on this, but to refuse to educate yourself is just ignorance, and we can't really afford to not proceed down this road due to ignorance.
Click to expand...
You are not thinking critically. THere ARE options on the table. We can choose to place business within a moral framework. And we should look at our economic policies in the wider context of national security and self-determination.

I used to be a neocon like you and I used to say all the same things and make all the same arguments. I was wrong then, as you are wrong now. There is no "only way" and your insults will not deter me from countering your lies with the truth. we could simply stop empowering our enemies with billions of trade dollars. We can close our border to protect our opportunities for our children instead of giving their future to the masses of south american poor. We can stop immigration of muslim terrorists into our nation. We can say no to the New world order.
It's easy to create a 'boogyman' and get everyone worked up. It is easy to take something productive and legitimate, like PNAC, and turn it into some sinister evil conspiracy plot. People will buy it because they lack confidence and trust in their government, so it's easy to believe.
Click to expand...
Trust in government? Like big brother? should we love big brother?
When you factor in partisanship, and our natural inclination to follow the pack, these myths can quickly snowball, and there is no turning back. People convince themselves things must be this way, they've thought it for so long now, it must be true!
Click to expand...
Your describing yourself and your nazi party of global fascism which is made up of both republicans and democrats.
Free-thinking, requires you to separate yourself from partisanship, and evaluate things objectively. When I hear someone ranting about the New World Order, PNAC, etc... I see someone who has not objectively looked into these things, they have accepted some partisan opinion and made their minds up already.
Click to expand...

You've given up thinking for yourself; you just accept these memes presented to you by fascists as gospel and proceed to batter those who tell the truth, or present other options.

When you can see no alternative to giving billions in trade to a totalitarian nation, building it's military to destroy you, you are mentally gone, completely stark raving mad.
 
Better economies? Who is an economy better for when slave labor is employed? Perhaps an end to totalitarianism? Perhaps? Freedom and individual rights used to be the moral underpinning of the west. Now it's economic growth by any means necessary, even at the expense of freedom? I envision something different, and reject your priorities and vision.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this!
 
Better economies? Who is an economy better for when slave labor is employed? Perhaps an end to totalitarianism? Perhaps? Freedom and individual rights used to be the moral underpinning of the west. Now it's economic growth by any means necessary, even at the expense of freedom? I envision something different, and reject your priorities and vision.

It still is the moral underpinning of the west, at least until Hillary gets elected. We can't tell China not to use 'slave labor' they just look at us as if we are fools, and laugh. We are not going to fight a war to make them do it, so what is your option? Refuse to trade and break diplomatic ties? How is that going to resolve the human rights issues in China? Please explain it to me, because I don't see an end to the means here.

No. I'm making total sense. You're just glossing over the realities of what you promote with nice sounding words and misprioritize morality and economic growth. You present things as "the only way" when there are other choices we could make.


No, you are not making sense, because you haven't explained how disengaging with China, and refusing to trade with them, is going to solve the human rights problem in China. Until you can show me how that happens, I don't believe you, mostly because that was the scenario prior to 1972, and the human rights conditions only worsened in China.


You are not thinking critically. THere ARE options on the table. We can choose to place business within a moral framework. And we should look at our economic policies in the wider context of national security and self-determination.

Oh, I am thinking critically, it is you who isn't. There are no other options on the table, placing business within a moral framework didn't work, we tried it for decades, the problem only worsened. Our policies are centered around national security and self-determination, it is far better to have trade relations with China, than to impose some moral trade ban on them. As I said, and you have not countered, if we don't have trade and commerce with China, we essentially have nothing to bargain with, and the Chinese can tell us to kiss their little yellow asses. If we have billions of dollars tied up in trade interests, it's a little easier to negotiate with them, to lobby the government to change its policies, to push for better conditions.


we could simply stop empowering our enemies with billions of trade dollars.

And as I have repeatedly said, that is precisely what we did up until 1972, when Nixon normalized trade relations with China. The problem with your idea is, we have tried it and it failed. China ignored our calls for moderation, and sold all they could produce to Russia, and our lack of trade dollars didn't effect them one little bit. We had ZERO leverage with the Chinese, nothing to bargain for or with, because we had polarized relations completely with China, and until Nixon, we had no means to negotiate with them about the human rights issues. Now, we are developing a strong trade relationship with them, and that is the key to fostering change in China, it's the only real option we have, unless we want to go to war.

We can close our border to protect our opportunities for our children instead of giving their future to the masses of south american poor. We can stop immigration of muslim terrorists into our nation. We can say no to the New world order.

Yes, and we can all put on our tin foil hats and pretend that Dick Cheney was abducted by aliens, and they seek to control the country. We can bluster up a bunch of drummed up and hyped up hooey about secret cartels and sinister plots, and work the pinheads up into a frenzy over it! THAT is going to solve the human rights problems in China, right???


Trust in government? Like big brother? should we love big brother?

As I said... because you distrust government!

Your describing yourself and your nazi party of global fascism which is made up of both republicans and democrats.

Speaking candidly and objectively, I do not believe there are "nazis" on either side of the political aisle in America. Again, you are going to the well of misused words, and trying to apply dramatic context to make your point... typical pinhead behavior.... classic!

You've given up thinking for yourself; you just accept these memes presented to you by fascists as gospel and proceed to batter those who tell the truth, or present other options.

Well, no... it would appear YOU are the one who has given up thinking, I have been trying to get you to think, but you seem almost incapable because of your partisanship, pinheadedness, or general distrust of government. I haven't "accepted" anything, I just posted how I didn't agree with NAFTA and GATT until I researched them, so how do you figure I "just accepted" this? And as for "other opinions" I have asked you to share your opinions, and you you can't seem to tell me what your plan is for China, or the global economic future, or any other issue we've discussed. You just want to rail on Bush and the Administration, the "neocons" and the NWO. Which would be alright, if you brought substance, but you don't. It's typical liberal knee-jerk reactionary emotive reasoning.

When you can see no alternative to giving billions in trade to a totalitarian nation, building it's military to destroy you, you are mentally gone, completely stark raving mad.

We don't GIVE billions in trade, we TRADE in billions with. You make it sound as if we are gifting something to the Chinese, and we aren't. Again, I ask you, what is your alternative? Tell me something we haven't tried, and I will listen! The way I see it, we have two choices, foster healthy trade relations with China, and try to be diplomatic, or isolate and alienate them completely. The later has been tried, and didn't work. We can stand here with our hands on our hips acting incredulous about the human rights conditions in China, but without some means to leverage and motivate China to change, it isn't going to happen, there is no reason for it to happen, China has no interest in doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, and we aren't going to militarily force them to, and they know that. So... what's your solution? You have none!

The solution, or at least the beginning of a possible solution, comes through diplomacy, and fostering good strong trade alliances with China, becoming economically connected mutually, so that we have a bargaining chip. Without this leverage, China is not going to change, and we can't change them.
 
Dixie said:
Better economies? Who is an economy better for when slave labor is employed? Perhaps an end to totalitarianism? Perhaps? Freedom and individual rights used to be the moral underpinning of the west. Now it's economic growth by any means necessary, even at the expense of freedom? I envision something different, and reject your priorities and vision.

It still is the moral underpinning of the west, at least until Hillary gets elected. We can't tell China not to use 'slave labor' they just look at us as if we are fools, and laugh. We are not going to fight a war to make them do it, so what is your option? Refuse to trade and break diplomatic ties? How is that going to resolve the human rights issues in China? Please explain it to me, because I don't see an end to the means here.

No. I'm making total sense. You're just glossing over the realities of what you promote with nice sounding words and misprioritize morality and economic growth. You present things as "the only way" when there are other choices we could make.


No, you are not making sense, because you haven't explained how disengaging with China, and refusing to trade with them, is going to solve the human rights problem in China. Until you can show me how that happens, I don't believe you, mostly because that was the scenario prior to 1972, and the human rights conditions only worsened in China.


You are not thinking critically. THere ARE options on the table. We can choose to place business within a moral framework. And we should look at our economic policies in the wider context of national security and self-determination.

Oh, I am thinking critically, it is you who isn't. There are no other options on the table, placing business within a moral framework didn't work, we tried it for decades, the problem only worsened. Our policies are centered around national security and self-determination, it is far better to have trade relations with China, than to impose some moral trade ban on them. As I said, and you have not countered, if we don't have trade and commerce with China, we essentially have nothing to bargain with, and the Chinese can tell us to kiss their little yellow asses. If we have billions of dollars tied up in trade interests, it's a little easier to negotiate with them, to lobby the government to change its policies, to push for better conditions.


we could simply stop empowering our enemies with billions of trade dollars.

And as I have repeatedly said, that is precisely what we did up until 1972, when Nixon normalized trade relations with China. The problem with your idea is, we have tried it and it failed. China ignored our calls for moderation, and sold all they could produce to Russia, and our lack of trade dollars didn't effect them one little bit. We had ZERO leverage with the Chinese, nothing to bargain for or with, because we had polarized relations completely with China, and until Nixon, we had no means to negotiate with them about the human rights issues. Now, we are developing a strong trade relationship with them, and that is the key to fostering change in China, it's the only real option we have, unless we want to go to war.

We can close our border to protect our opportunities for our children instead of giving their future to the masses of south american poor. We can stop immigration of muslim terrorists into our nation. We can say no to the New world order.

Yes, and we can all put on our tin foil hats and pretend that Dick Cheney was abducted by aliens, and they seek to control the country. We can bluster up a bunch of drummed up and hyped up hooey about secret cartels and sinister plots, and work the pinheads up into a frenzy over it! THAT is going to solve the human rights problems in China, right???


Trust in government? Like big brother? should we love big brother?

As I said... because you distrust government!

Your describing yourself and your nazi party of global fascism which is made up of both republicans and democrats.

Speaking candidly and objectively, I do not believe there are "nazis" on either side of the political aisle in America. Again, you are going to the well of misused words, and trying to apply dramatic context to make your point... typical pinhead behavior.... classic!

You've given up thinking for yourself; you just accept these memes presented to you by fascists as gospel and proceed to batter those who tell the truth, or present other options.

Well, no... it would appear YOU are the one who has given up thinking, I have been trying to get you to think, but you seem almost incapable because of your partisanship, pinheadedness, or general distrust of government. I haven't "accepted" anything, I just posted how I didn't agree with NAFTA and GATT until I researched them, so how do you figure I "just accepted" this? And as for "other opinions" I have asked you to share your opinions, and you you can't seem to tell me what your plan is for China, or the global economic future, or any other issue we've discussed. You just want to rail on Bush and the Administration, the "neocons" and the NWO. Which would be alright, if you brought substance, but you don't. It's typical liberal knee-jerk reactionary emotive reasoning.

When you can see no alternative to giving billions in trade to a totalitarian nation, building it's military to destroy you, you are mentally gone, completely stark raving mad.

We don't GIVE billions in trade, we TRADE in billions with. You make it sound as if we are gifting something to the Chinese, and we aren't. Again, I ask you, what is your alternative? Tell me something we haven't tried, and I will listen! The way I see it, we have two choices, foster healthy trade relations with China, and try to be diplomatic, or isolate and alienate them completely. The later has been tried, and didn't work. We can stand here with our hands on our hips acting incredulous about the human rights conditions in China, but without some means to leverage and motivate China to change, it isn't going to happen, there is no reason for it to happen, China has no interest in doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, and we aren't going to militarily force them to, and they know that. So... what's your solution? You have none!

The solution, or at least the beginning of a possible solution, comes through diplomacy, and fostering good strong trade alliances with China, becoming economically connected mutually, so that we have a bargaining chip. Without this leverage, China is not going to change, and we can't change them.
Click to expand...


Everything I want to do is just a list of things we're just "not going to do" from your point of view. That's not a rationale for what we are doing. you dismiss any alternative because you're a closed minded fascist cretin.

We can put trade sanction on our enemies, and we should. We can change them. You've basically given up fighting evil, unless it threatens your precious masters, the jews. WHy will you fight in iraq, but doing something about china is simply "undoable"? What accounts for this disparity in resolve?
 
see everyone, To dixie, making a moral choice simply because it's moral is an outdated mode of thinking. And empowering enemies with billions of trade is the right thing to do. He's a traitor to america, and god, and is on his path to hell, having proclaimed goodness as something the world can't afford.

All esoteric faiths, including ziono-kabbalo-masonism, generally have the acceptance of evil as the highest teaching. This isn't enlightenment, it's en-criminal-ment. It's basically the child's argument "everyone else is doing it". Children know this doesn't cut it. Why are grown men advocating such evil and traitorousness to their own nation?
 
uscitizen said:
Did Jesus say to kick evils butt, or ignore it and live the correct life without evil ?
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I do not believe christianity is a pact to accept enslavement, if that's what you mean.

I'm fairly certain jesus wouldn't espouse the "go along to get along" approach to evil dixie is offering.
 
uscitizen said:
Nope something else Asshat. Live your owm life and let others live theirs.
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Tell that the NWO fascists who want to control everyone and everything. Ok, stymie? I reject the interpretation of christianity that says christians must never defend themselves.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Tell that the NWO fascists who want to control everyone and everything. Ok, stymie? I reject the interpretation of christianity that says christians must never defend themselves.
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Oh I reject that as well, just don't feel that Christianianity should rule others.
We have had those world order control nuts since man has walked upright. Regardless of the size of their world. Remember bullies in school ?
Hmm we have made it this far. I wonder what we did right in the past ?
 
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AssHatZombie said:
Im not claiming it should. Im saying amoral corporate fascists with an anti-freedom agenda shouldn't rule others either.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree. We have been waging this battle since the beginning of time. For man at least. Most of the problem is caused by those sheeple willing and eager to follow and be led.


then of late the sheeple have been sold the idea that they are actually participating in the corporate game, while they are being fleeced :)
 
uscitizen said:
Oh I agree. We have been waging this battle since the beginning of time. For man at least. Most of the problem is caused by those sheeple willing and eager to follow and be led.


then of late the sheeple have been sold the idea that they are actually participating in the corporate game, while they are being fleeced :)
Click to expand...


So why are you aguing with me? You know the truth but are too cowardly to talk about it, so when people do talk about it you are reminded of your cowardice, so you try to shut them up too? ANd are thus also a tool of the system you think is wrong?
 
AssHatZombie said:
So why are you aguing with me? You know the truth but are too cowardly to talk about it, so when people do talk about it you are reminded of your cowardice, so you try to shut them up too? ANd are thus also a tool of the system you think is wrong?
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I just talked about it. People are basically greedy and selfish and this battle between the haves and have nots will continue.
 
The latest new world order will rise and fall. It is getting closer to it's peak.
My position on "new world orders" is that they suck, but I cannot override the stupidity of the majority of humans.
 
uscitizen said:
The latest new world order will rise and fall. It is getting closer to it's peak.
My position on "new world orders" is that they suck, but I cannot override the stupidity of the majority of humans.
Click to expand...

So the stupidity of people lets you off the hook for doing something about the NWO? You can talk about it and spread the truth, instead of denying it. That's one thing you can do.
 
I don't deny it. Nor can I really do anything about it, since it is based on basic human behaviours. It will cycle up and down as it always has.
I see no use to complain about the weather, or difficulties understanding women either ;)
 
uscitizen said:
I don't deny it. Nor can I really do anything about it, since it is based on basic human behaviours. It will cycle up and down as it always has.
I see no use to complain about the weather, or difficulties understanding women either ;)
Click to expand...


You're assuming revolution will always be possible. These guys are plotting to create a revolution proof world, where they have all guns, all means of production, and controll all markets. It's not really just business as usual, though you downplay it as such.
 
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