The Power of Prayer

Yakuda said:
So opinion not proof.

No citations but leaving that aside what does "no effect" mean? My God is everywhere, You didn't get the pony you prayed for did you?
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"As delivered in this study, intercessory prayer had no significant effect on medical outcomes after hospitalization in a coronary care unit." (Emphasis added)

Source:
Jennifer M. Aviles, Sr Ellen Whelan, Debra A. Hernke, Brent A. Williams, Kathleen E. Kenny, W. Michael O'Fallon, Stephen L. Kopecky,
Intercessory Prayer and Cardiovascular Disease Progression in a Coronary Care Unit Population: A Randomized Controlled Trial,
Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Volume 76, Issue 12, 2001,
Pages 1192-1198,

(link)
 
Obtenebrator said:
"As delivered in this study, intercessory prayer had no significant effect on medical outcomes after hospitalization in a coronary care unit." (Emphasis added)

Source:
Jennifer M. Aviles, Sr Ellen Whelan, Debra A. Hernke, Brent A. Williams, Kathleen E. Kenny, W. Michael O'Fallon, Stephen L. Kopecky,
Intercessory Prayer and Cardiovascular Disease Progression in a Coronary Care Unit Population: A Randomized Controlled Trial,
Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Volume 76, Issue 12, 2001,
Pages 1192-1198,

(link)
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What study is that? I have seen several with the opposite conclusion. Often they believe it is the same as the placebo effect when they reach their conclusions. If they receive the prayer and believe it will help, often their outcome is positive, even when there was little hope for that positive outcome.
 
evangelical atheists are a pain in the ass......I think the OP is afraid some Christian's prayer is going to leave a shit stain on domer's favorite pair of panties......
 
Obtenebrator said:
"As delivered in this study, intercessory prayer had no significant effect on medical outcomes after hospitalization in a coronary care unit." (Emphasis added)

Source:
Jennifer M. Aviles, Sr Ellen Whelan, Debra A. Hernke, Brent A. Williams, Kathleen E. Kenny, W. Michael O'Fallon, Stephen L. Kopecky,
Intercessory Prayer and Cardiovascular Disease Progression in a Coronary Care Unit Population: A Randomized Controlled Trial,
Mayo Clinic Proceedings, Volume 76, Issue 12, 2001,
Pages 1192-1198,

(link)
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lol....atheists study prayer......
 
Obtenebrator said:
If prayer is real, it doesn't matter who studies it. If you don't like science that's fine, it's often inconvenient for you but don't just assume the people who made the study were "atheists" or against you.
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and if the person who studies it doesn't believe deities exist it certainly isn't going to impact the results.......what percentage of the 'intercessors' were Satanists.....you know, to establish a control group.......
 
Obtenebrator said:
The citation is from 2001 (appended in the post).



Interesting. The only ones I have ever heard of found no effect. It would be interesting to see if some found an effect.



That makes a lot of sense.
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Yeah, basically, if the study is of folks who do not believe you will see no intercessory successes after prayer, but if the study is of folks who do believe then you will see the effect. Usually it is attributed to things like specific hormones that are released when you have removed some of the stress level.

You see it referenced in this study:

from the study said:
People who believe in God and pray during illness have been reported to have better health outcomes than people who do not.16-18 For some, faith is an effective means of stress reduction, which has itself been shown to reduce cardiac morbidity.19 Some of these benefits may derive from favorable hormonal, autonomic, and immunologic20,21 responses to the emotional reassurance that belief can provide. Nevertheless, the present trial was designed to study the impact not of personal spirituality, but of prayer offered for patients regardless of their spiritual orientation.
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I always found that interesting and it makes me wonder if that is why my step-father successfully fought of 7 different cancers before dying later of a different ailment entirely.
 
Obtenebrator said:
I understand your dim view of science because you couldn't make it past junior high science class, but there's a reason for the statistics and controls on the experiment.
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and I understand that you consider all Christians beneath you......on the other hand, no one actually gives a fuck what your opinion is.......
 
Damocles said:
Yeah, basically, if the study is of folks who do not believe you will see no intercessory successes after prayer, but if the study is of folks who do believe then you will see the effect. Usually it is attributed to things like specific hormones that are released when you have removed some of the stress level.

You see it referenced in this study:



I always found that interesting and it makes me wonder if that is why my step-father successfully fought of 7 different cancers before dying later of a different ailment entirely.
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I don't think western medicine really has an adequate idea of what, if any, health benefits there are to prayer and meditation.

There has always been a widespread sense that there is physical and psychological power in the role of positive thinking and emotional strength, but I don't think it's really been fully investigated or understood by western medical science in the context of meditation and prayer.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and I understand that you consider all Christians beneath you
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Ahh, then either you are unfamiliar with my posts or you are lying. Almost all of my friends whom I love and respect are Christians. And I've said REPEATEDLY on this forum there is a lot to value from Christianity.


PostmodernProphet said:
......on the other hand, no one actually gives a fuck what your opinion is.......
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Nor yours!
 
Cypress said:
I don't think western medicine really has an adequate idea of what, if any, health benefits there are to prayer and meditation.

There has always been a widespread sense that there is physical and psychological power in the role of positive thinking and emotional strength, but I don't think it's really been fully investigated or understood by western medical science in the context of meditation and prayer.
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Indeed. Even that study I referenced noticed the effect but made no move to study it, only to reference and say, "but this study won't go there, because we are studying (once again) whether it works regardless of belief"... LOL
 
Obtenebrator said:
Ahh, then either you are unfamiliar with my posts or you are lying. Almost all of my friends whom I love and respect are Christians. And I've said REPEATEDLY on this forum there is a lot to value from Christianity.
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I'm sorry......your posts are sad repeats of the lame arguments atheists have been posting for a decade......you haven't had an original thought since you got here........
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I'm sorry......your posts are sad repeats of the lame arguments atheists have been posting for a decade......you haven't had an original thought since you got here........
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I love it when people like you who shout your piety from the rooftops bear false witness with such ease. It's like the 10 Commandments are a urinal for you.
 
Damocles said:
Indeed. Even that study I referenced noticed the effect but made no move to study it, only to reference and say, "but this study won't go there, because we are studying (once again) whether it works regardless of belief"... LOL
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I think most people have an intuitive sense that your mental attitude and your emotional strength is somehow linked to your physical resilience. But it's not the type of thing medical research universities can get a lot of grant money to study. Especially when you start throwing around words like meditation and prayer

I suspect Zen masters have some insights about it that doesn't really include western medical science
 
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