The problem of evil

Dutch Uncle said:
I think a lot of MAGAts would like to turn back the clock on that one. IMO, one reason illegal immigration has been allowed to go on so long is because it's a form of indentured servitude.

Agreed Trump is not mentally healthy. Part of that is a life of luxury which distanced him from normal American life. Now, at 78, I think he's suffering from age-related cognitive issues.

All that said, as stated previously, humans are born with certain abilities and desires, but most of our culture is learned. People aren't innately altruistic and kind. They are focused upon survival. Depending upon the society in which they are born, the qualities of altruism and kindness can be nurtured. Some will never learn, as JPP MAGAts prove daily, but many do.
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Good points.

My two cents is that there are rules we learn, and then their our obligations our mind is capable of cultivating or perceiving.

Learning table manners or proper social etiquette are lists of rules we are trained like monkeys to perform.

Being able to perceive that an adult stealing the lunch money from a blind kid is qualitatively different. At some point we are capable of perceiving this is just objectively wrong, independent of any rule books of proper etiquette. We don't feel guilt for using the salad fork to eat our steak.
 
Cypress said:
Good points.

My two cents is that there are rules we learn, and then their our obligations our mind is capable of cultivating or perceiving.

Learning table manners or proper social etiquette are lists of rules we are trained like monkeys to perform.

Being able to perceive that an adult stealing the lunch money from a blind kid is qualitatively different. At some point we are capable of perceiving this is just objectively wrong, independent of any rule books of proper etiquette. We don't feel guilt for using the salad fork to eat our steak.
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Thanks.

Agreed 100%. Our minds include the concept of "Free Will"*, even if it's an infinitesimal 0.00001% or anything above Zero. While I place a lot of value upon nurture over nature in human behavior, there's no doubt that nature certainly influences each of us.

Desmond Morris labeled us "the Naked Ape". I agree with him. :)

Why? By what measure? Some think of it as "Might makes Right". By what measure do we determine which is most moral: the strong dominating the weak or recognizing we're all in this together? Some might, indeed, feel guilt about misusing an eating utensil. Not because of better genes or because it essential to the survival of the human race, but because they were conditioned to do so. For me, this is where Free Will comes in: they can fight the conditioning. Anything from stabbing both of his parents with the butter knife to loving them and letting go of such customs when away from them.



*Something, for reasons little understood by myself, @Phantasmal consistently disagrees with me on the concept.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Thanks.

Agreed 100%. Our minds include the concept of "Free Will"*, even if it's an infinitesimal 0.00001% or anything above Zero. While I place a lot of value upon nurture over nature in human behavior, there's no doubt that nature certainly influences each of us.

Desmond Morris labeled us "the Naked Ape". I agree with him. :)

Why? By what measure? Some think of it as "Might makes Right". By what measure do we determine which is most moral: the strong dominating the weak or recognizing we're all in this together? Some might, indeed, feel guilt about misusing an eating utensil. Not because of better genes or because it essential to the survival of the human race, but because they were conditioned to do so. For me, this is where Free Will comes in: they can fight the conditioning. Anything from stabbing both of his parents with the butter knife to loving them and letting go of such customs when away from them.



*Something, for reasons little understood by myself, @Phantasmal consistently disagrees with me on the concept.
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Hadn't heard of this Desmond dude!

I agree with you that free will seems self evident to me. I think I had a choice in what I wanted to major in in college.

I think the guilt we would feel stealing the lunch money from a blind and crippled child is qualitatively different than violations of other social conventions we are trained in. For example, we might be embarrassed (not guilty) at using the salad fork to eat steak. But stealing money from a blind kid just feels objectively wrong and our inner conscience tells us that.
 
Cypress said:
Hadn't heard of this Desmond dude!

I agree with you that free will seems self evident to me. I think I had a choice in what I wanted to major in in college.

I think the guilt we would feel stealing the lunch money from a blind and crippled child is qualitatively different than violations of other social conventions we are trained in. For example, we might be embarrassed (not guilty) at using the salad fork to eat steak. But stealing money from a blind kid just feels objectively wrong and our inner conscience tells us that.
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A two-year-old will stab another kid in the eye with a stick. They have to be taught to "work and play well with others". His "the Nake Ape" book is interesting reading.

I came across this. It's interesting reading. Basically, it says that the rise of human beings to the dominant lifeform on the planet is because of our ability to be open to possibilities. "openness – the ability to envision and plan a vast array of possibilities in our actions."
The article points out that animals can use tools, but their use is limited and passed down culturally.


dailygalaxy.com

Anthropologist Proposes Theory on Why Humans Dominate the World

The question of human dominance over the planet has long intrigued scientists and philosophers alike. Recently, Thomas Morgan, an evolutionary anthropologist at Arizona State University, proposed a fascinating hypothesis to explain why humans rule the world. His theory challenges the traditional...
dailygalaxy.com dailygalaxy.com
While many species share cultural traits, human culture stands out for its unparalleled adaptability and power. Morgan suggests that our species’ distinctive feature is openness – the ability to envision and plan a vast array of possibilities in our actions. This capacity allows humans to :


  • Imagine complex, nested steps to achieve a final goal
  • Adapt and refine these steps as needed
  • Combine existing knowledge in novel ways
  • Create entirely new concepts and innovations...
...
Understanding this human specificity could deepen our comprehension of cultural evolution and raise essential questions about our future. How will our culture continue to evolve with the advent of artificial intelligence, robotics, and new technologies ? This hypothesis on our capacity for openness could also inspire research to understand how to create systems that mimic human adaptability.

As we explore the depths of human cultural evolution, we might also ponder when humans first started wearing clothes – another unique cultural adaptation that sets us apart from our animal counterparts. The journey of human dominance over the world continues to unfold, driven by our unparalleled ability to imagine, create, and adapt.
 
Cypress said:
Hadn't heard of this Desmond dude!

I agree with you that free will seems self evident to me. I think I had a choice in what I wanted to major in in college.

I think the guilt we would feel stealing the lunch money from a blind and crippled child is qualitatively different than violations of other social conventions we are trained in. For example, we might be embarrassed (not guilty) at using the salad fork to eat steak. But stealing money from a blind kid just feels objectively wrong and our inner conscience tells us that.
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yeah well.

creating distinctions without a difference is what you do.

so of course you think this dumb shit.
 
Scut Farkus said:
I call people stupid dispassionately.


My assessments are quite clinical, unlike your armchair wingnut pop psychology blatherings.

:truestory:
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Clearly a lie, Fredo. If you were dispassionate, why the enlarged, bolded font to make your insults appear more powerful than simply text on a page?
 
Hume said:
You are I am extremely stupid. Who types for you me?!
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Indeed!
moron-idiot.gif
 
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