The problem of evil

Daylight63 said:
Well, that's not really an answer. We are talking about an infant who is suffering in agonizing pain dying of an aggressive cancer.

Should the infant demonstrate "free will" and choose NOT to die of an aggressive cancer? Will my sudden experience of this strange emotion "love" cure the infant?
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That's not free will, Perry.

As Pastor Charles Swindoll famously said, "Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it". An infant has very little "free will" since they have little choice in both what happens to them and, due to a lack of cognitive development, little choice in how they react to it.
 
Scut Farkus said:
yes it's all bullshit and anti-americanism.
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Ummm, nope. Being more competitive is not anti-American. You shouldn't be getting it this wrong.

Scut Farkus said:
the Indians are not better,
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You are confusing quantity with quality; I shouldn't have to teach you the difference.

India has a bajillion additional people with the skills we need to compete. Competing is American; not competing is anti-American.

Notice the word "need." We "need" them because we lack them. Until we cease to lack them, we won't be able to compete. Preventing America from competing is anti-American.

You are being evil garbage.

Scut Farkus said:
corporations just wants captive workers will less freedom.
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Nope. Learn economics. Corporations just want to be profitable. To do that, they need to be able to compete.

Scut Farkus said:
And it's a betrayal of American citizens for short term profit.
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It's a betrayal of American citizens to prevent them from being competitive. You are advocating globalist socialism, e.g. European Union anticompetitive tyranny.
 
IBDaMann said:
... and very bad music, and terrible coffee.


The assertion is that it is real, not merely notional. The question now is whether it is solid, liquid, or gas ... and whether it is animal, vegetable or mineral.
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you are the very model of a modern major general......

:truestory:
 
Dutch Uncle said:
That's not free will, Perry.

As Pastor Charles Swindoll famously said, "Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% how you react to it". An infant has very little "free will" since they have little choice in both what happens to them and, due to a lack of cognitive development, little choice in how they react to it.
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Evil requires intent.

Cancer has no intent. Diseases are not evil. They are tragic, at worst.

It doesn't make sense to demand that we live in a perfect world with no disease, no crime, no suffering. If we led perfect, flawless, ideal lives we wouldn't be human.
 
Cypress said:
Evil requires intent.

Cancer has no intent. Diseases are not evil. They are tragic, at worst.

It doesn't make sense to demand that we live in a perfect world with no disease, no crime, no suffering. If we led perfect, flawless, ideal lives we wouldn't be human.
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Agreed on all. Evil is a choice, the choice to turn away from good and light into evil and the darkness.

Agreed on natural occurrences not having intent. The asteroid that is headed for Earth is not evil. It's just nature. Same for the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs creating a biospheric vacuum that mammals filled.

If we led perfect, flawless lives, we'd be unthinking automatons. The maxim "Adversity creates character" comes to mind. I forget who said it, maybe Thomas Aquinas since he wrote a lot about the nature of mankind and God, but the speculation was asking the question of why God created mankind. His conclusion was "to create souls". Souls have to be forged through the trials and tribulations of living.

IIRC, it's not how long one lives, but how one lives that makes the difference. The reasoning being, if an eternal existence awaits, the small bit of time we live becomes irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. It's how we live that matters. The choices we make, the impact our lives have on others and our environment and our strength of good character.

Romans 5
The Triumph of Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
4perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on all. Evil is a choice, the choice to turn away from good and light into evil and the darkness.

Agreed on natural occurrences not having intent. The asteroid that is headed for Earth is not evil. It's just nature. Same for the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs creating a biospheric vacuum that mammals filled.

If we led perfect, flawless lives, we'd be unthinking automatons. The maxim "Adversity creates character" comes to mind. I forget who said it, maybe Thomas Aquinas since he wrote a lot about the nature of mankind and God, but the speculation was asking the question of why God created mankind. His conclusion was "to create souls". Souls have to be forged through the trials and tribulations of living.

IIRC, it's not how long one lives, but how one lives that makes the difference. The reasoning being, if an eternal existence awaits, the small bit of time we live becomes irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. It's how we live that matters. The choices we make, the impact our lives have on others and our environment and our strength of good character.

Romans 5
The Triumph of Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
4perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
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Cultivating inner strength, self-sacrifice, charity, mercy, compassion would be impossible if we were magically forced to all have totally perfect and ideal lives. You're right, we would be automatons.

I never shook my fist at the sky and cursed God when my 11 year old sister died of a heart condition. It didn't even occur to me to curse at the sky.
 
Cypress said:
Cultivating inner strength, self-sacrifice, charity, mercy, compassion would be impossible if we were magically forced to all have totally perfect and ideal lives. You're right, we would be automatons.

I never shook my fist at the sky and cursed God when my 11 year old sister died of a heart condition. It didn't even occur to me to curse at the sky.
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Agreed. It's the hardships of life that forge our characters. Look at those who consistently, if not always, blame others for their problems compared to those who either accept it or accept it and seek to find a solution to correct it.

Sorry for your loss, Cypress. That's a tough life lesson for a young person. I'm guessing you were similar in age. As noted above, you can see others in similar situations who would blame doctors, the CDC, Lefties, God or anything else except to accept the realities of life.

Due to JPP's demographics, I think most members have experienced the loss of loved ones and/or close friends. Back to Swindoll's comment, it's not what happened to them that matters the most, it's who they react to it.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. It's the hardships of life that forge our characters. Look at those who consistently, if not always, blame others for their problems compared to those who either accept it or accept it and seek to find a solution to correct it.

Sorry for your loss, Cypress. That's a tough life lesson for a young person. I'm guessing you were similar in age. As noted above, you can see others in similar situations who would blame doctors, the CDC, Lefties, God or anything else except to accept the realities of life.

Due to JPP's demographics, I think most members have experienced the loss of loved ones and/or close friends. Back to Swindoll's comment, it's not what happened to them that matters the most, it's who they react to it.
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Death is part of life, and at our age we come to terms with that. I think we also come to terms with life not neccessarily being fair, at least from our limited perspective
 
Cypress said:
Death is part of life, and at our age we come to terms with that. I think we also come to terms with life not neccessarily being fair, at least from our limited perspective
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Agreed. It's a choice on how we come to terms with the fact life isn't fair. This is one major area where I enjoy observing the various personalities online since how a person comes to terms with life is easily seen by their posts over time.

Everyone has changes a bit on a daily basis but they are often stable enough to have an individual norm and can be compared to the normal daily behavior of others. Some members change over time. The elderly ones who are effectively shut-ins or suffering from dementia can be observed deteriorating. Often into anger and paranoia. You can guess the political persuasion of most of these poor souls.
 
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Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed. It's a choice on how we come to terms with the fact life isn't fair. This is one major area where I enjoy observing the various personalities online since how a person comes to terms with life is easily seen by their posts over time.

Everyone has changes a bit on a daily basis but they are often stable enough to have an individual norm and can be compared to the normal daily behavior of others. Some members change over time. The elderly ones who are effectively shut-ins or suffering from dementia can be observed deteriorating. Often into anger and paranoia. You can guess what the political persuasion of most of these poor souls.
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Key indicators of mental issues are the elderly poster who is rambling nonsense, the poster who routinely posts at 2 am, or the poster who is young enough to be working full time, but instead relentlessly trolls the board all day long.

You're right, most seem to be MAGA morons :laugh:
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on all. Evil is a choice, the choice to turn away from good and light into evil and the darkness.

Agreed on natural occurrences not having intent. The asteroid that is headed for Earth is not evil. It's just nature. Same for the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs creating a biospheric vacuum that mammals filled.

If we led perfect, flawless lives, we'd be unthinking automatons. The maxim "Adversity creates character" comes to mind. I forget who said it, maybe Thomas Aquinas since he wrote a lot about the nature of mankind and God, but the speculation was asking the question of why God created mankind. His conclusion was "to create souls". Souls have to be forged through the trials and tribulations of living.

IIRC, it's not how long one lives, but how one lives that makes the difference. The reasoning being, if an eternal existence awaits, the small bit of time we live becomes irrelevant in the larger scheme of things. It's how we live that matters. The choices we make, the impact our lives have on others and our environment and our strength of good character.

Romans 5
The Triumph of Faith
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
3Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
4perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
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But what about when people are nazis and try to poison people with bad food and bad medicine and sterilize the children?

Is that evil?
 
Cypress said:
I think we also come to terms with life not neccessarily being fair,
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But it seems that that is precisely why you dislike atheism. Your repeated claims that you dislike it that atheism leads to a universe in which evil people get away without cosmic justice.

Sounds like you haven't fully accepted that life may very well NOT be fair.
 
Daylight63 said:
But it seems that that is precisely why you dislike atheism. Your repeated claims that you dislike it that atheism leads to a universe in which evil people get away without cosmic justice.

Sounds like you haven't fully accepted that life may very well NOT be fair.
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^^^
Perry is obsessed with Cypress.
 
Cypress said:
Death is part of life, and at our age we come to terms with that. I think we also come to terms with life not neccessarily being fair, at least from our limited perspective
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Daylight63 said:
But it seems that that is precisely why you dislike atheism. Your repeated claims that you dislike it that atheism leads to a universe in which evil people get away without cosmic justice.

Sounds like you haven't fully accepted that life may very well NOT be fair.
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Justice is different from fairness. That's why they are two different words.
 
Daylight63 said:
so why would life be just but unfair?
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Easy.

Adults learn you simply cannot just expect to get the perfect job, to be accepted into your first choice of college, to be able to date the perfect swimsuit models, to not get caught in a traffic jam on the day of an important job interview. We learn by our early 20s that life isn't fair.

But if you are murdered, your spouse and parents are justified in expecting at least the possibility of justice, even if it was unfair your life was abruptly taken from you.
 
Cypress said:
Easy.

Adults learn you simply cannot just expect to get the perfect job, to be accepted into your first choice of college, to be able to date the perfect swimsuit models, to not get caught in a traffic jam on the day of an important job interview. We learn by our early 20s that life isn't fair.

But if you are murdered, your spouse and parents are justified in expecting at least the possibility of justice, even if it was unfair your life was abruptly taken from you.
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Interesting parsing there.
 
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