The Ron Paul that Ron Paul does not want you to know

You live in PA, right?

I really can't imagine that in PA. Racism has never been so bad in the north (excluding NYC, of course).


Central PA is very different. They don't call it Pennsyltucky for nothing. I don't live in that part. My wife grew up on Cincinatti.
 
If people have the kind of clear thinking mature understanding of our connectivity to each other as expressed here, how could anyone at the same time believe that Ron Paul should be the president?

America is collapsing from within and the two-party system has failed us. Many are reaching out to Paul in an act of desperation. But it's not an intelligent act of desperation, as few such acts rarely are.

The two-party system must end. Americans must stop kissing the democratic and republican ass and demand open ballot access for different political parties with different agendas.

This nation has morphed into a plutocracy with the richest 1% not only contolling 95% of the wealth, but also 95% of the political agenda and 99% of the people.

Desperation will not save America. Only intelligence will.
 
The richest 1% do not control 95% of the wealth, Black...

It annoys me whenever people "quote" statistics like that. I've heard evangelicals say all kinds of things are at an "all time high" whenever I could quote ACCURATE statistics that say that aren't. Crime, for instance, is just above the all-time low (which happened in 2004, I believe).
 
LOL, that's so funny how coy you're acting......."does the klan even exist?" that's a good one.

The Klan, I believe, has 5000 members. So, yes, I do know about the Klan. But I've never met a member. In the sixties I could've met a member everywhere in Mississippi. But that was just a breif spurt of irrational emotion. However, with such a small member base Damo would've HAD to be going to a VERY odd grocery store to see such a sign, if he went in the modern era.

It's quite a fall. Once they had five million. They're just about to die. There are several more "white nationalist" organizations around the US, but they're on the verge of dying as well. Just face it, Tiana, racism isn't the big issue that you make of it.
 
You live in PA, right?

I really can't imagine that in PA. Racism has never been so bad in the north (excluding NYC, of course).


Central PA is very different. They don't call it Pennsyltucky for nothing. I don't live in that part. My wife grew up on Cincinatti.

Central PA is very conservative, I've heard. I have a friend up there who believes it's the greatest thing on the planet. She didn't even believe me whenever I said that they had two Republican senators. Of course, Sanatorium has since been defeated, and he was the only real conservative.
 
If people have the kind of clear thinking mature understanding of our connectivity to each other as expressed here, how could anyone at the same time believe that Ron Paul should be the president?

Because the age of American Imperialism must end.

The age of the wanton violation of our constitution must end.

The age of holding political office for mere personal aggrandizement must end.

The age of torture and the clandestine police state must end.

Do you have a better idea?
 
The richest 1% do not control 95% of the wealth, Black...

It annoys me whenever people "quote" statistics like that. I've heard evangelicals say all kinds of things are at an "all time high" whenever I could quote ACCURATE statistics that say that aren't. Crime, for instance, is just above the all-time low (which happened in 2004, I believe).

Curbing Corporate America
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion?bid=15&pid=203747

Corporate and CEO profits are at an all-time high. The richest 1 percent in America posses the wealth of the bottom 95 percent combined. Companies deploy hundreds of lobbyists and spend millions of dollars courting members of Congress to win legislative favors. The presidential election in '08 promises to be the priciest in history, largely underwritten by big business and top dollar donors.

Whatever one thinks of Ralph Nader, his critique of how corporate America has come to dominate American politics seems more and more prescient. "The countervailing forces to corporate power have been in decline for the last 25 years," he says. Today Nader kicked off a three day conference on the subject of "Taming the Giant Corporation" at the regal Carnegie Institution in Washington.

The discussion couldn't come at a more pressing time. "There have never been as many exposes of corporate scandal in the progressive and mainstream media as there is today," Nader says. "And there has never been less impact to these disclosures."

The public certainly isn't satisfied with the status quo. In an April CBS News/Gallup poll, 59 percent of the public said life has gotten "worse" for middle-class Americans over the past ten years. Sixty-six percent believe that money and wealth "should be more evenly distributed" in America.

Yet there is often a disconnect between the views of the public and the actions of elected officials. Take the example of immigration reform, which failed to clear the Senate last night. Politicians and the media largely argue over whether the bill provides "amnesty" for illegal immigrants, while missing the larger point.

"What the immigration bill was really about was corporate America's ability to import low-skilled and high-skilled workers to keep wages down," says Warren Gunnels, a senior policy advisor to Bernie Sanders who spoke in the Senator's absence. High-skilled workers brought in on H-1B visas are paid, on average, $25,000 less per year than American workers, according to Gunnels. And last week, while Dell and IBM and Motorola and others claimed that they couldn't find Americans to take these jobs, those very companies laid off thousands of employees. So Sanders sponsored an amendment, along with Republican Charles Grassley of Iowa, to limit the number of H-1B visas to companies that are concurrently laying off workers. It never reached the floor.

In The Nation two years back Nader proposed "How to Curb Corporate Power." It should be required reading for the Congress.
****

I think quibbling over what percentage is "controlled" or "possessed" by corporate America misses the point. Unquestionably they control too much of the American political agenda.

I'm not sure how crime factors into this.
 
The Klan, I believe, has 5000 members. So, yes, I do know about the Klan. But I've never met a member. In the sixties I could've met a member everywhere in Mississippi. But that was just a breif spurt of irrational emotion. However, with such a small member base Damo would've HAD to be going to a VERY odd grocery store to see such a sign, if he went in the modern era.

It's quite a fall. Once they had five million. They're just about to die. There are several more "white nationalist" organizations around the US, but they're on the verge of dying as well. Just face it, Tiana, racism isn't the big issue that you make of it.
When did I say it was a grocery store? And I'm glad they are about to die.

Anyway it was a book store that I was entering and it appeared to have titles I had never seen before. After entering, I figured out why I had never seen them before.
 
If people have the kind of clear thinking mature understanding of our connectivity to each other as expressed here, how could anyone at the same time believe that Ron Paul should be the president?

Because the age of American Imperialism must end.

The age of the wanton violation of our constitution must end.

The age of holding political office for mere personal aggrandizement must end.

The age of torture and the clandestine police state must end.

Do you have a better idea?

I most certainly do, and although it includes some of what you speak of, it does not include a focus on the individual as the most important element in America, nor does it include further apathy and disconnect from our fellow citizens, nor does it include even further turning over our government to lobbyists and corporate America, nor does it include trying to govern modern society from 300 years in the past .. all of which Paul would want to see.

First and foremost, we must become a democracy again, not a plutocracy. Unless we wreste control of our nation and its resources away from corporate America .. which has no sense of patriotism or what's best for the American people, nothing else will truly matter. We will remain subjects to the Corporate Crown, not citizens in control of our own destiny.

The Constitution is a living document which is why it has been amended. It should continue to be amended, adjusted, and modified to meet the needs of today's society. End the pretense that the Constitution is all-knowing and contains every answer for today from a time when America still held slaves.

It's way past time that America grew up and stop hiding behind a stone age document that was brilliant in its time, set the course for our democracy, but didn't have all the answers even in its own time.

Jefferson and Madison recognized the flaws in the Constitution and Jefferson pushed his own state of Virginia not to accept it unless it was amended to better and more specifically protect the rights of citizens. This is why he and Madison crafted the Bill of Rights to cover the holes in the Constitution.

Constitution, Constitution .. there needs to be more emphasis on the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence, which most Americans don't have a clue of what it means.

Jefferson thought frreedom from corporations was a basic human right .. and that's a great place to start.
 
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"The presidential election in '08 promises to be the priciest in history, largely underwritten by big business and top dollar donors. "

Ever heard of inflation? I doubt the people who wrote that statistic did.


"Corporate and CEO profits are at an all-time high. The richest 1 percent in America posses the wealth of the bottom 95 percent combined. Companies deploy hundreds of lobbyists and spend millions of dollars courting members of Congress to win legislative favors."

Corporations should be given personhood only so far as they are given the money they control by contractual obligations with PERSONS. The ability for them to control money for political purposes without any DIRECT approval by all stockholders, should be taken away. There is no right to contract present in the constitution. This line of thinking was abolished in the 30's.



"The public certainly isn't satisfied with the status quo. In an April CBS News/Gallup poll, 59 percent of the public said life has gotten "worse" for middle-class Americans over the past ten years. Sixty-six percent believe that money and wealth "should be more evenly distributed" in America."

Of course. It's human nature to think that everything is going downhill at all times in our life. The populists and leftists together voted for that. Only the people who support president Bush agreed. But life hasn't gotten worse, that's for certain.



"What the immigration bill was really about was corporate America's ability to import low-skilled and high-skilled workers to keep wages down," says Warren Gunnels, a senior policy advisor to Bernie Sanders who spoke in the Senator's absence. High-skilled workers brought in on H-1B visas are paid, on average, $25,000 less per year than American workers, according to Gunnels. And last week, while Dell and IBM and Motorola and others claimed that they couldn't find Americans to take these jobs, those very companies laid off thousands of employees. So Sanders sponsored an amendment, along with Republican Charles Grassley of Iowa, to limit the number of H-1B visas to companies that are concurrently laying off workers. It never reached the floor."

There's always the irrational immigration lobby present. One of the biggest forces in the KKK was white factory workers who didn't want blacks to "unfairly" compete with them for wages.
 
And I'll bet the Klan has more than 5000 members.

I'm quoting years old statistics I heard off of a History channel documentary, Damo. I wouldn't take them as very accurate. But the Klan isn't very large, that's for certain.

There are, of course, many people out there who agree with the Klan's agenda but aren't part of the Klan itself. Likely, those store owners weren't.

I thought it was a grocery store? I can't remember the post, man. Sorry. ;)
 
"nor does it include trying to govern modern society from 300 years in the past .. all of which Paul would want to see."

One more time. There has never been a libertarian government on this planet, no libertarian-formed government would be a return to the past.

Also, there is a proper way to amend the Constitution. If you feel that the document will not serve, go through the process. If less than 2/3 of the Senate and less than 3/4 of the states agree with you, then it will remain as it is and should apply. We should hold those members of the government who violate it accountable, if we do not then there is no reason to have the document to begin with.

Just saying "living document" doesn't change that the process should be followed.
 
"First and foremost, we must become a democracy again, not a plutocracy. Unless we wreste control of our nation and its resources away from corporate America .. which has no sense of patriotism or what's best for the American people, nothing else will truly matter. We will remain subjects to the Corporate Crown, not citizens in control of our own destiny."


You can go out and ignore corporations if you want to. No individual corporation has any real power over you, Black.
 
"I most certainly do, and although it includes some of what you speak of, it does not include a focus on the individual as the most important element in America, nor does it include further apathy and disconnect from our fellow citizens, nor does it include even further turning over our government to lobbyists and corporate America, nor does it include trying to govern modern society from 300 years in the past .. all of which Paul would want to see."

Maybe there should've been a power of government to inform the individuals about the political process, and to give money to the candidates in order to allow them to spread their message and advertise. But I don't know who could control such a force effectively.

One bill in congress that proported to provide such an agency really made me angry; you had to get 20% of the people in your district on a ballot or else you couldn't run (that's over 100,000 people, in case you were wondering, more than the total amount of people who usually even votes in a congressional election). This requirement was conveniently waved for anything defined as a "major party" (defined in subsection C as a Democrat or Republican). No candidate could get any other source of funding. Can you imagine a better way to abolish all independents and third parties?
 
"nor does it include trying to govern modern society from 300 years in the past .. all of which Paul would want to see."

One more time. There has never been a libertarian government on this planet, no libertarian-formed government would be a return to the past.

Also, there is a proper way to amend the Constitution. If you feel that the document will not serve, go through the process. If less than 2/3 of the Senate and less than 3/4 of the states agree with you, then it will remain as it is and should apply. We should hold those members of the government who violate it accountable, if we do not then there is no reason to have the document to begin with.

Just saying "living document" doesn't change that the process should be followed.

I'm not suggesting otherwise and I have no problem with the process of amending it. My problem rests with the drumbeat of the Constitution has all the answers and anything that isn't "constitutional" is not good for America or shouldn't be considered. There is a shit-load of issues and problems that aren't in the Constitution. What may be good for America may not be in the Constitution and it doesn't need to be tweaked to conform to every issue.

There has never been a libertarian governmnet for good reason, so why should it even be considered?
 
"Corporate and CEO profits are at an all-time high."

Black... again, corporate profits are NOT at an all time high. CEO's do not make "profits". I guess corporate profits are at an "all time high" if you refuse to take inflation into account. Then again, at pretty much in period in American history they were at an "all time high" in that case.
 
There has never been a libertarian governmnet for good reason, so why should it even be considered?

That is an opinion. I would love to live in such an environment, and to have a choice that would allow me to. That it doesn't exist, or hasn't, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered.
 
I'm not suggesting otherwise and I have no problem with the process of amending it. My problem rests with the drumbeat of the Constitution has all the answers and anything that isn't "constitutional" is not good for America or shouldn't be considered. There is a shit-load of issues and problems that aren't in the Constitution. What may be good for America may not be in the Constitution and it doesn't need to be tweaked to conform to every issue.

There has never been a libertarian governmnet for good reason, so why should it even be considered?

There has also never been a government that fully conforms to your beliefs, Black. So why should it be considered?

Again, fallacy of popularity.

I'm not completely libertarian. I've been called a socialist by those on the right before because of my beliefs on welfare and such. But straight libertarianism does have it's place in a democracy. Not all government is good and in many cases it would be more efficient to leave issues to the market.

The constitution mainly doesn't decide issues for us, Black. It only provides us with a framework with which to run our government. Goldwater and Ron Paul were taking the constitution a bit too far whenever they decided the civil rights acts were unconstitutional. However, is it completely unreasonable to you how someone could reach such a conclusion?
 
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