You are missing the point, sir, we simply, over the long haul, cannot afford all the government everyone would like to have. Like it or not sir as it stands right now as of this minute the vaious levels of government of the United states is spending more on governance than the entire GDP of any other country in the world. The federal bovernment of the United states of America Spendss the equivalent of the entire net worth of Bll Gates in about 2 hours.
The soul of the right is being displayed out in the open as never before.
- Thread starter jbander1
- Start date
Ummm...sane people would call it "truthful" rather than petulant and childish.
Calling truthfulness petulant and childish...
...is...
...ummm...
...well...petulant and childish.
Given your usual level of repartee that's almost clever but not quite. The job of the press isn't to insult people. And if You wish to critique a policy and the only thing you got is Trump said it you have nothing that a five year old couldn't manage.
Boris The Animal
It's Just Boris!
Go eat a 9mm Glock, Guano. your "opinion" is not welcome here nor anywhere else, Ghetto trash.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
you are literally eating shit and dying goyim
Boris The Animal
It's Just Boris!
Screw YOU! Ghetto Trash drug addict.
Stick with the sandbox, Gary.
You are not yet ready for prime time. And frankly, sound as though you won't be any time soon.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
sure it is......there are the mindless lib'ruls, never-Trumpers, the apathetics, and the folks who voted for the guy who is president.......
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello garyd,
Agreed about the diff between news and opinion. I have not seen any major media calling the president stupid, incompetent, or crazy. (If you could give an example) I see posters here calling him that. That's not the mainstream news media doing that. At most, you might have an opinion piece giving an example of something the president did, and possibly using descriptive terms to talk about that, but if so, it is presented as opinion, not news. Giving opinion is very much part of the news media and the true professionals are very good at getting their point across while remaining respectful of the office of president.
Personally, I prefer to criticize his policy. I see no point in hatred. The man is our employee. Either he is doing a job we approve of or he is not. So far the majority of the nation does not approve of his job performance. I certainly do not. I think we can do far better. Trump is not the answer to what America needs.
Agreed about the diff between news and opinion. I have not seen any major media calling the president stupid, incompetent, or crazy. (If you could give an example) I see posters here calling him that. That's not the mainstream news media doing that. At most, you might have an opinion piece giving an example of something the president did, and possibly using descriptive terms to talk about that, but if so, it is presented as opinion, not news. Giving opinion is very much part of the news media and the true professionals are very good at getting their point across while remaining respectful of the office of president.
Personally, I prefer to criticize his policy. I see no point in hatred. The man is our employee. Either he is doing a job we approve of or he is not. So far the majority of the nation does not approve of his job performance. I certainly do not. I think we can do far better. Trump is not the answer to what America needs.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello garyd,
Once again we find ourselves in complete disagreement. We most certainly can afford every bit of the government we have. We are simply not collecting enough taxes. Most people have no idea just how rich the rich are. One thing is certain. If we taxed the rich at greater levels (only on the amounts they earn OVER everybody else) we can eliminate the deficit and begin paying down the federal debt. The math supports that. This video is a little over 6 minutes. It is a wake up call as to just how much money the rich have. Most people do not understand the difference. If your perception is like mine, you will be shocked to learn how much wealth is out there.
Once again we find ourselves in complete disagreement. We most certainly can afford every bit of the government we have. We are simply not collecting enough taxes. Most people have no idea just how rich the rich are. One thing is certain. If we taxed the rich at greater levels (only on the amounts they earn OVER everybody else) we can eliminate the deficit and begin paying down the federal debt. The math supports that. This video is a little over 6 minutes. It is a wake up call as to just how much money the rich have. Most people do not understand the difference. If your perception is like mine, you will be shocked to learn how much wealth is out there.
Wrong the problem is not now nor has it ever been wealth inequality which is a function as much a any thing of high taxes and regulation these days. And how is fifty percent of GDP not enough?
Dude the only thing that separates you from the kiddie pool is your foulness. At least with a baby you can change that stinky diaper.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello garyd,
What are you referring to in your '50% of GDP' comment?
From the video, we did learn that 50% of the wealth in the USA is owned by less than 2% of the nation, and that 50% of all the stocks bonds and mutual funds are owned by only 1% of the nation. We also learned that 50% of Americans own less than 0.5% of those investments. They are just barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck. How can the economy do any better when 50% of consumers can not possibly spend any more because they already spend everything they earn? And with virtually no investments, they are locked out of wealth building. The GDP is mostly driven by consumer spending. If people are not paid any more they can't spend any more. And earnings are going the wrong way. Jobs are paying less, workers getting fewer hours not more, jobs are being eliminated by automation, not created.
Wealth inequality is not a function of taxing or regulations. What causes you to believe that? If anything, taxing and regulations affect the rich and big corporations more than individuals. Many Americans are already so poor they pay no income tax. Taxing takes money from the rich and gives it to the poor, thus easing wealth inequality. And still it is not enough to even the difference. Not even close. We are going to have to tax the rich more and institute a Basic Universal Income, because capitalism has failed us and left most of the nation so poor.
What are you referring to in your '50% of GDP' comment?
From the video, we did learn that 50% of the wealth in the USA is owned by less than 2% of the nation, and that 50% of all the stocks bonds and mutual funds are owned by only 1% of the nation. We also learned that 50% of Americans own less than 0.5% of those investments. They are just barely scraping by paycheck to paycheck. How can the economy do any better when 50% of consumers can not possibly spend any more because they already spend everything they earn? And with virtually no investments, they are locked out of wealth building. The GDP is mostly driven by consumer spending. If people are not paid any more they can't spend any more. And earnings are going the wrong way. Jobs are paying less, workers getting fewer hours not more, jobs are being eliminated by automation, not created.
Wealth inequality is not a function of taxing or regulations. What causes you to believe that? If anything, taxing and regulations affect the rich and big corporations more than individuals. Many Americans are already so poor they pay no income tax. Taxing takes money from the rich and gives it to the poor, thus easing wealth inequality. And still it is not enough to even the difference. Not even close. We are going to have to tax the rich more and institute a Basic Universal Income, because capitalism has failed us and left most of the nation so poor.
The federal government spends about 25 to 30 percent of GDP local state and county government are easily another 25% ergo we are spending 50% of GDP on government at this moment. The 50% of tax payers pay almost no income tax. IN fact if you add in SS EITC and other programs the government is paying the bottom 20% to live here. The top 1% pay 20 percent of taxes the top 20 percent pay 80 percent of the tax burden. The middle class picks up most of the rest. Everyone spends almost all they make in one way or the other. You can tell that by looking at the savings rate. Most everyone with a functioning brain has at least a 401k if you don't and your company has a matching program you are a complete idiot. Trouble is a lot of people especially the young operate as complete idiots in a financial sense. Let me see save for the future and retirement or get the Mustang instead of the Focus? Buy New or used. Buy a house or rent an apartment? By the way that last is a far more complex decision than most might think. By the way if you have much more than the absolute minimum necessary for emergency repairs in a pass book saving account you are arguably crazy the rate of return is all but negligible and taxes and inflation most years will eat more of the value than it earns. It's only sightly better than sticking it in a mattress. Although at least the mattress while it gets no interest avoids taxes on the interest accrued.
Now let's look at a few other things. 1st if we adjusted that ridiculous top tax rate of the fifties of 90% for inflation to today's dollar assuming it is even possible to accurately guess that given we were on the gold standard then but haven't been since the collapse of Bretton-Woods in the early seventies.it is likely that the bottom of that bracket were surpass the income of all but maybe Warren Buffet. And He as Getty did back in the 50S would likely move out of the country. You see the problem with trying to soak the rich is that you can only soak then to the extent they are willing to let you. This is especially true in the days of the WWW.
Grow up and be free....GO HERE...AND BE HAPPY.
Abc NBC and CBS pretty much don't CNN does every so often and MSNBC has had a whole show Morning Joe largely dedicated to the proposition that Trump is evil or stupid or insane.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello garyd,
I don't watch much commercial TV. I kind of doubt that even MSNBC has said Trump is evil or stupid or insane. At most, they may have had a guest who examines the question of President Trump's mental stability, but I would expect them to present both sides of that issue if they did go there.
And I think it is a reasonable discussion to have. The man does some very questionable things which would raise the question of mental illness.
I don't watch much commercial TV. I kind of doubt that even MSNBC has said Trump is evil or stupid or insane. At most, they may have had a guest who examines the question of President Trump's mental stability, but I would expect them to present both sides of that issue if they did go there.
And I think it is a reasonable discussion to have. The man does some very questionable things which would raise the question of mental illness.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello garyd,
But not the federal government. And all of this is done with the approval of the representatives we the people voted into office. America wants this level of government spending.
Progressive taxation is an extremely successful and effective world wide concept. Basically, we don't pay the lower echelon of workers enough to ask them to support government. This is an example of government making up for the cruel failures of capitalism.
They should be paying more. The only way we can have this great nation and do all these great things is if the rich pay most of the taxes. Back when we didn't do that, George Washington was extremely lucky to be able to fight a war with the British using a volunteer starving unpaid fledgling army. America was not great then. Obviously that won't work in current times. Things have changed. We can't tax the poor enough to build nuclear weapons no matter how the math is tweaked.
No, I disagree. A majority of the nation does live paycheck to paycheck, and 50% have virtually no savings. The rich DO NOT spend all they make. The super-rich earn so much they couldn't possibly spend it all in a thousand lifetimes.
That's only your opinion. Each individual's circumstances are unique. Although it is quite common for rich conservatives to blame the poor for their own condition. Blacks, for instance, have been systematically prevented from wealth-building, and many families have been broken up by circumstances of the New Deal, rendering them unable to accrue wealth, with poverty and an impoverished mindset being handed down generation after generation. There is nothing inherently stupid in black genes which prevents success and wealth-building, so it must be circumstantial. A life of wealth or poverty can often be predetermined depending on the luck of which family an individual is born into. Same individual (same genes) with a different upbringing could be fabulously successful and wealthy.
Young people lack the wisdom of age and experience. And the world has changed. With our 24-7-365 shock-factor sound byte news and the lack of good education in the USA, coupled with the low wages of starting jobs, it is not surprising that many young want to live for the day and find it difficult to save. Many teen agers in the USA do not believe they will even live long enough to worry about retirement. There are so many threats to health and survival it is mind boggling. 30,000 die every year on our highways. Just as many are shot to death. And then there is disease. Cancer, heart attack, bird flu, swine flu. The threat of nuclear war. Chemical weapons. A meteor could hit the world. And now it looks pretty gloomy thinking of living past 2100 with the threat of global warming, drought, stronger storms, sea level rise, dying ocean life, the ongoing mass extinction event humans are perpetrating. Over population. A volcano would spew so much ash it could affect the climate and the food chain.
Who could blame a young person for thinking now is the time to enjoy life while you have the chance? How can that be resisted for the 'wisdom' of saving for an uncertain future? A bright and well-informed young mind could reason with just cause that living life to the fullest right now is the wise choice. Especially if that individual has personally watched friends and relatives die young and vanish from the face of the Earth just like that. That is an impressive event for a young mind.
Moving out of the country for lower taxes is a common theme presented by conservatives. But I don't buy it. Taxing is not the only consideration for where to live. People have families and friends they like to socialize with. They have memories and institutions they enjoy. Football. Baseball. Basketball. Freedom. Opera. Rock concerts. The 4th of July. The national anthem. If somebody who was already so rich he didn't have to worry about finances, so rich he never has to work another day in his life, and could live an opulent lifestyle, it makes little sense that this person would give up all that comes with living in their home country, the USA, simply in order to have a little more money. Move far away from the grandchildren? Few retired wives would want to go along with that idea.
I rate this common right wind argument as complete fantasy.
I see the problem differently. Nobody is trying to 'soak the rich.' That is not the point. The point is to collect enough taxes to pay for the budget. We are not doing that. Congress won't reduce spending, so we have to collect more revenue. We have to balance the budget. The rich are so rich they can be taxed at a much higher rate, enough to completely eliminate the deficit and begin paying down the debt. And that is what we should do. You want to talk being responsible? That is the responsible thing to do.
Because we elected Trump, our children and our grandchildren will be saddled with crippling federal debt. THAT is the height of irresponsibility. ESPECIALLY when the rich are pocketing the difference and they don't even need it. We could be paying down the debt by taxing the rich more, and the rich would not even have to give up their opulent lifestyles.
And I will tell you something else that no conservative yet has had the nerve to address.
It has to do with financial responsibility.
Now is the time.
We should be paying down the debt RIGHT NOW, because now is the only time we can do it.
You pay down the debt during a strong economy.
The debt rises during a recession.
You can't pay the debt down during a recession so you have to do it when the economy is good. NOW!
Let's don't fool each other here.
Capitalism is fraught with highs and lows. It cycles back and forth between good economic times and bad. Over and over. Another recession is coming. Recessions cause government debt to rise. government pays out unemployment and increased welfare during recessions. And there might be bail outs and stimulus packages. Debt soars during a recession. You can't pay down the debt then.
IT HAS TO BE DONE NOW WHEN THE ECONOMY IS GOOD.
The Republican tax give-away for the rich tax cut during good economic times is highly irresponsible.
Republicans are consigning us to VERY HIGH DEBT.
I find it highly ironic to be hearing Republicans talking about financial responsibility given what Republicans just irresponsibly did to us and our financial future.
But not the federal government. And all of this is done with the approval of the representatives we the people voted into office. America wants this level of government spending.
Progressive taxation is an extremely successful and effective world wide concept. Basically, we don't pay the lower echelon of workers enough to ask them to support government. This is an example of government making up for the cruel failures of capitalism.
They should be paying more. The only way we can have this great nation and do all these great things is if the rich pay most of the taxes. Back when we didn't do that, George Washington was extremely lucky to be able to fight a war with the British using a volunteer starving unpaid fledgling army. America was not great then. Obviously that won't work in current times. Things have changed. We can't tax the poor enough to build nuclear weapons no matter how the math is tweaked.
No, I disagree. A majority of the nation does live paycheck to paycheck, and 50% have virtually no savings. The rich DO NOT spend all they make. The super-rich earn so much they couldn't possibly spend it all in a thousand lifetimes.
That's only your opinion. Each individual's circumstances are unique. Although it is quite common for rich conservatives to blame the poor for their own condition. Blacks, for instance, have been systematically prevented from wealth-building, and many families have been broken up by circumstances of the New Deal, rendering them unable to accrue wealth, with poverty and an impoverished mindset being handed down generation after generation. There is nothing inherently stupid in black genes which prevents success and wealth-building, so it must be circumstantial. A life of wealth or poverty can often be predetermined depending on the luck of which family an individual is born into. Same individual (same genes) with a different upbringing could be fabulously successful and wealthy.
Young people lack the wisdom of age and experience. And the world has changed. With our 24-7-365 shock-factor sound byte news and the lack of good education in the USA, coupled with the low wages of starting jobs, it is not surprising that many young want to live for the day and find it difficult to save. Many teen agers in the USA do not believe they will even live long enough to worry about retirement. There are so many threats to health and survival it is mind boggling. 30,000 die every year on our highways. Just as many are shot to death. And then there is disease. Cancer, heart attack, bird flu, swine flu. The threat of nuclear war. Chemical weapons. A meteor could hit the world. And now it looks pretty gloomy thinking of living past 2100 with the threat of global warming, drought, stronger storms, sea level rise, dying ocean life, the ongoing mass extinction event humans are perpetrating. Over population. A volcano would spew so much ash it could affect the climate and the food chain.
Who could blame a young person for thinking now is the time to enjoy life while you have the chance? How can that be resisted for the 'wisdom' of saving for an uncertain future? A bright and well-informed young mind could reason with just cause that living life to the fullest right now is the wise choice. Especially if that individual has personally watched friends and relatives die young and vanish from the face of the Earth just like that. That is an impressive event for a young mind.
Moving out of the country for lower taxes is a common theme presented by conservatives. But I don't buy it. Taxing is not the only consideration for where to live. People have families and friends they like to socialize with. They have memories and institutions they enjoy. Football. Baseball. Basketball. Freedom. Opera. Rock concerts. The 4th of July. The national anthem. If somebody who was already so rich he didn't have to worry about finances, so rich he never has to work another day in his life, and could live an opulent lifestyle, it makes little sense that this person would give up all that comes with living in their home country, the USA, simply in order to have a little more money. Move far away from the grandchildren? Few retired wives would want to go along with that idea.
I rate this common right wind argument as complete fantasy.
I see the problem differently. Nobody is trying to 'soak the rich.' That is not the point. The point is to collect enough taxes to pay for the budget. We are not doing that. Congress won't reduce spending, so we have to collect more revenue. We have to balance the budget. The rich are so rich they can be taxed at a much higher rate, enough to completely eliminate the deficit and begin paying down the debt. And that is what we should do. You want to talk being responsible? That is the responsible thing to do.
Because we elected Trump, our children and our grandchildren will be saddled with crippling federal debt. THAT is the height of irresponsibility. ESPECIALLY when the rich are pocketing the difference and they don't even need it. We could be paying down the debt by taxing the rich more, and the rich would not even have to give up their opulent lifestyles.
And I will tell you something else that no conservative yet has had the nerve to address.
It has to do with financial responsibility.
Now is the time.
We should be paying down the debt RIGHT NOW, because now is the only time we can do it.
You pay down the debt during a strong economy.
The debt rises during a recession.
You can't pay the debt down during a recession so you have to do it when the economy is good. NOW!
Let's don't fool each other here.
Capitalism is fraught with highs and lows. It cycles back and forth between good economic times and bad. Over and over. Another recession is coming. Recessions cause government debt to rise. government pays out unemployment and increased welfare during recessions. And there might be bail outs and stimulus packages. Debt soars during a recession. You can't pay down the debt then.
IT HAS TO BE DONE NOW WHEN THE ECONOMY IS GOOD.
The Republican tax give-away for the rich tax cut during good economic times is highly irresponsible.
Republicans are consigning us to VERY HIGH DEBT.
I find it highly ironic to be hearing Republicans talking about financial responsibility given what Republicans just irresponsibly did to us and our financial future.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
Last edited: