The Southern White Man's Party

[Cancel7]

Wrong... Chavez went to prison for attempting to over throw Perez.

Venezuela WAS the most stable democracy in Latin America... by far... until Chavez decided to make himself into the dictator he always wanted to be. Any time you shut down the media and start assuming total control over a country, you are a dictator. Pretty soon we will see elections much in the same manner Saddam had in Iraq. Vote for me or die....

Quit trying to bring the rest of Latin America into this. The leaders the Venezuelan people elected were not all leftists to the extent Chavez was.

Also, please make sure to share your blame with Tip O'Neil and the Dems that led Congress for decades as this was done. I must say, I do find your faux Reagan outrage amusing though.

Fuck you Sf.

Chavez was elected.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

if you went there and spouted this, it's the people who would kill you. Murder your righteous bullshit self-justifying ass right in the street.

You and your free markets. You have no idea what happened to thse people. We are butchers to them. Wake up. Just wake up, but if you don't, don't you ever lecture to me about free markets in Latin America.

Ever.

 

[Damocles]

I think many people were against him before he nationalized the oil, uscit. That just added fuel to the already burning bonfire.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

This kinda bums me out, because it's so true.

I would prefer to see 2 very competitive, broad-based parties in this country. I think the GOP is in real danger of becoming a long-term minority unless they wake up soon.

I always think the Democrats' worst instincts take over when they get too comfortable...

The GOP has always been a minority party.

I'm just wondering if they'll take an even bigger hit than they did, even in the thirties. I'm really not sure having a dominant party system, with the Democrats taking the majority of seats in almost every election, would be the best for the nation.

It may seem good for a while, but give people power and they'll abuse it like hell.

 

[Cancel7]

I think many people were against him before he nationalized the oil, uscit. That just added fuel to the already burning bonfire.

Who cares?

Do you have any idea what we did to these people in the name of unregulated capitalism and anti-communism?

You will say you do, but you don't. You know what you were told to know just like SF. That's what I meant when I laughed at your outrage about Chavez teaching about socialism in his own schools.

 

[Cypress]

Wrong... Chavez went to prison for attempting to over throw Perez.

Venezuela WAS the most stable democracy in Latin America... by far... until Chavez decided to make himself into the dictator he always wanted to be. Any time you shut down the media and start assuming total control over a country, you are a dictator. Pretty soon we will see elections much in the same manner Saddam had in Iraq. Vote for me or die....

Quit trying to bring the rest of Latin America into this. The leaders the Venezuelan people elected were not all leftists to the extent Chavez was.

Also, please make sure to share your blame with Tip O'Neil and the Dems that led Congress for decades as this was done. I must say, I do find your faux Reagan outrage amusing though.

Superfreak,

Venezueala was never a "stable" democracy. There was no golden era before chavez. I don't know where you're getting this stuff. Venezuela (like many latin american democracies) has always been a slow dance between representative democray, and authoritarian plutocrats. Its never been a perfectly balanced jeffersonian republic. They've had problems. The center-right governments that came before Chavez could engage in extra-judicial killings, and authoritarianism. And kleptocracy.

I traveled and lived in venezuala in the early 1990s. You couldn't drive ten miles down a road without encoutering an army checkpoint, and have an 18 year old kid stick a rifle in your face. That's not a democracy my friend. It was on the edge of an authoritarian regime. If I recall correctly, the OAS has in fact legally condemened the human rights violations of the Venezuelan government from that era. Yet, in the light of all the faux Chavez hatred, you wouldn't know of venezuela's authoritarian past. This post was the perfect example: you were under the impression there was some sort of golden era in venezuela before chavez. There wasn't.

Let me tell you what I saw: In Caracas, gleaming high rises and condominiums. Women in fur coats. The elite of caracas enjoying a night life and culture that rivals some european cities. Mere miles away from these partying elites, the mountains surrounding Caracas were covered in shanty towns. A mass of humanity living in boxes, and lean-to's made of plywood.

The reason Chavez has won four elections overwhelmingly, is that he is addressing the inequalities in venezeula. He's no saint, I'm quite sure. I doubt he's worse than what came before, and I suspect he's probably a little better.

 

[Cancel7]

Superfreak,

Venezueala was never a "stable" democracy. There was no golden era before chavez. I don't know where you're getting this stuff. Venezuela (like many latin american democracies) has always been a slow dance between representative democray, and authoritarian plutocrats. Its never been a perfectly balanced jeffersonian republic. They've had problems. The center-right governments that came before Chavez could engage in extra-judicial killings, and authoritarianism. And kleptocracy.

I traveled and lived in venezuala in the early 1990s. You couldn't drive ten miles down a road without encoutering an army checkpoint, and have an 18 year old kid stick a rifle in your face. That's not a democracy my friend. It was on the edge of an authoritarian regime. If I recall correctly, the OAS has in fact legally condemened the human rights violations of the Venezuelan government from that era. Yet, in the light of all the faux Chavez hatred, you wouldn't know of venezuela's authoritarian past. This post was the perfect example: you were under the impression there was some sort of golden era in venezuela before chavez. There wasn't.

Let me tell you what I saw: In Caracas, gleaming high rises and condominiums. Women in fur coats. The elite of caracas enjoying a night life and culture that rivals some european cities. Mere miles away from these partying elites, the mountains surrounding Caracas were covered in shanty towns. A mass of humanity living in boxes, and lean-to's made of plywood.

The reason Chavez has won four elections overwhelmingly, is that he is addressing the inequalities in venezeula. He's no saint, I'm quite sure. I doubt he's worse than what came before, and I suspect he's probably a little better.

And they got off easy compared to most of Latin and Central America, way easy in fact. But the Venezeulan people, unlike Americans who only care for themselves, hold what happened in the rest of their region in their hearts, and they don't give a shit for America or her free markets. They know how many babies were thrown against rocks, and how many ten year old girls sexually tortured for those markets.

By CIA trained goons. CIA TRAINED.

 

[Damocles]

Who cares?

Do you have any idea what we did to these people in the name of unregulated capitalism and anti-communism?

You will say you do, but you don't. You know what you were told to know just like SF. That's what I meant when I laughed at your outrage about Chavez teaching about socialism in his own schools.

They were victims of the Cold War. By getting our allies to produce a glut of oil it destablized their country as most of the stabilization was based on the sales of oil. President Pervez attempted to fix this using neoliberal policies..

Through Chavez's early life, Venezuela had enjoyed a period of economic and democratic stability that was remarkable in South America at the time, although torture, ill-treatment, extrajudicial killings, political disappearances and corruption were widespread; the stability was based on the massive foreign exchange earnings from oil sales. However, when Saudi Arabia and other United States-aligned oil producers significantly raised their production output in an attempt to collapse the heavily oil-dependent Soviet economy, a glut ensued. Oil prices collapsed to historic lows, and Venezuelan oil earnings, and economic and social stability in general, were suddenly imperiled as per capita income fell to a fraction of its previous levels.[2]

Responding to this, in 1989 the Carlos Andrés Pérez administration enacted widely unpopular IMF-inspired structural adjustment programs. The programs' backers sought to restore fiscal stability to Venezuela's ailing economy by way of neoliberal policies, such as curtailing social spending and releasing longstanding price controls on many goods. These policies resulted in many hardships for Venezuela's poor majority, and their resultant discontent erupted in the violent February 27, 1989 Caracazo riots—the most violent and destructive in Venezuelan history.

Those riots set up Hugo Chavez' failed coup attempt in 1992, which rocketed him into the spotlight making it possible for him to be elected in 1998.

The assumption you have is that all their ailments were because of the US. I do not share that assumption.

 

[uscitizen]

all their ailments were not because of the USA Damo, but we contributed greatly.

Just continue to swing far to the other side and ignore all that is in the middle Damo.

It is that conservative brain thing, you can't help it.

 

[Cypress]

And they got off easy compared to most of Latin and Central America, way easy in fact. But the Venezeulan people, unlike Americans who only care for themselves, hold what happened in the rest of their region in their hearts, and they don't give a shit for America or her free markets. They know how many babies were thrown against rocks, and how many ten year old girls sexually tortured for those markets.

But CIA trained goons. CIA TRAINED.

Its horrendous. Where were these Chavez-haters, during those horrible US-backed authoritarian regimes? Quiet as church mice. Because those governments were Reagan's buddies.

It honestly sickened me to see the extremes in economic and social inequality in venezuela. Most of the people I met had this indescribable melancholy, almost sad look in their eyes. Except for the partying elites. They were loving life. I don't profess to be an expert on Chavez. All I know is that the people overwhelmingly elected him four times, with increasing majorities each time. And that poor people there overwhelmingly love him. Is he addressing fundamental inequality? Time will tell...but the venezuelan people have spoken. Does he want to position himself to be president for life? I don't know, but if true, I find that to be wierd and troubling. But, its not my country, and I seriously doubt that the Chavez government has been worse than what came before. And it appears the overwhelming majority of venezuelans think its at least somewhat better than before.

 

[Cancel7]

They were victims of the Cold War. By getting our allies to produce a glut of oil it destablized their country as most of the stabilization was based on the sales of oil. President Pervez attempted to fix this using neoliberal policies..



Those riots set up Hugo Chavez' failed coup attempt in 1992, which rocketed him into the spotlight making it possible for him to be elected in 1998.

The assumption you have is that all their ailments were because of the US. I do not share that assumption.

Neither you nor SF know what you're talking about on this issue, and I'm not going to discuss it with either one of you anymore, it's fruitless. But I don't want to hear any talk about "I hate Chavez, he's a socialist" and "free markets" because it sickens me, sickens me, sickens me.

Disgusting.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Superfreak,

Venezueala was never a "stable" democracy. There was no golden era before chavez. I don't know where you're getting this stuff. Venezuela (like many latin american democracies) has always been a slow dance between representative democray, and authoritarian plutocrats. Its never been a perfectly balanced jeffersonian republic. They've had problems. The center-right governments that came before Chavez could engage in extra-judicial killings, and authoritarianism. And kleptocracy.

I traveled and lived in venezuala in the early 1990s. You couldn't drive ten miles down a road without encoutering an army checkpoint, and have an 18 year old kid stick a rifle in your face. That's not a democracy my friend. It was on the edge of an authoritarian regime. If I recall correctly, the OAS has in fact legally condemened the human rights violations of the Venezuelan government from that era. Yet, in the light of all the faux Chavez hatred, you wouldn't know of venezuela's authoritarian past. This post was the perfect example: you were under the impression there was some sort of golden era in venezuela before chavez. There wasn't.

Let me tell you what I saw: In Caracas, gleaming high rises and condominiums. Women in fur coats. The elite of caracas enjoying a night life and culture that rivals some european cities. Mere miles away from these partying elites, the mountains surrounding Caracas were covered in shanty towns. A mass of humanity living in boxes, and lean-to's made of plywood.

The reason Chavez has won four elections overwhelmingly, is that he is addressing the inequalities in venezeula. He's no saint, I'm quite sure. I doubt he's worse than what came before, and I suspect he's probably a little better.

He's won two elections under the new constitution, and although both were clear majorities, neither was really "overwhelming".

Hugo Chavez's policies seemed to have collapsed the Venezuluan economy in the early years, however, the economy has now risen to the level it was before he came into office, and I don't think many people felt it necessary to vote him out.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Neither you nor SF know what you're talking about on this issue, and I'm not going to discuss it with either one of you anymore, it's fruitless. But I don't want to hear any talk about "I hate Chavez, he's a socialist" and "free markets" because it sickens me, sickens me, sickens me.

Disgusting.

Sickening sickening sickening!

Disgusing disgusting disgusting!

I can't come up with an argument!

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Fuck you Sf.

Chavez was elected.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

if you went there and spouted this, it's the people who would kill you. Murder your righteous bullshit self-justifying ass right in the street.

You and your free markets. You have no idea what happened to thse people. We are butchers to them. Wake up. Just wake up, but if you don't, don't you ever lecture to me about free markets in Latin America.

Ever.

Chavez initiated a coup over Perez in 1992.

Chavez was sent to prison for it.

Chavez was released in 1994.

Chavez ran for President in 1998 and won.

Perez returned the favor in 2002 and staged a coup of Chavez.

The coup did not last and Chavez out couped the coup.

and thank you for all the swearing... it made me laugh....

 

[Cancel7]

Sickening sickening sickening!

Disgusing disgusting disgusting!

I can't come up with an argument!

Fuck you too Water.

 

[Cancel7]

Chavez initiated a coup over Perez in 1992.

Chavez was sent to prison for it.

Chavez was released in 1994.

Chavez ran for President in 1998 and won.

Perez returned the favor in 2002 and staged a coup of Chavez.

The coup did not last and Chavez out couped the coup.

and thank you for all the swearing... it made me laugh....

That's great, you googled a timeline from wiki, and it means what?

You should try reading a book, or three, about the subject, and when you're done with them you can give them to the other idiot Water, and when he's done he can give it to the "see no evil hear no evil" Damo, and then maybe one out of the three of you will be worth wasting time with.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Now Darla... please tell me how I am wrong. If you don't know what the fuck you are talking about... it is ok to learn rather than simply swearing at me and telling me how I would be killed for telling the Venezuelan people what they already know. All your tirade did was make you look foolish on an issue where you are clearly confusing the two coups. Which is understandable given that they both invovled Perez and Chavez.

But none of that changes the facts that Chavez is leading Venezuela from a democracy to a dictatorship.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Awww...



'Twas just a joke.

 

[Battleborne]

You are a Commie...................!

Neither you nor SF know what you're talking about on this issue, and I'm not going to discuss it with either one of you anymore, it's fruitless. But I don't want to hear any talk about "I hate Chavez, he's a socialist" and "free markets" because it sickens me, sickens me, sickens me.

Disgusting.

Just admit it..former Catholic schoolgirl gone South!

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The only thing that really scares me about Chavez is his seeming desire to reign forever.

Give up, old man - if your positions themselves are what's supporting you, and not just your personality, surely you can find SOMEONE to replace you.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

That's great, you googled a timeline from wiki, and it means what?

You should try reading a book, or three, about the subject, and when you're done with them you can give them to the other idiot Water, and when he's done he can give it to the "see no evil hear no evil" Damo, and then maybe one out of the three of you will be worth wasting time with.

Which quite apparently you were unable to do. You thought you were correct and now, instead of apologizing for swearing at me and going into a temper tantrum, you are going to continue with your elitist attitude that you somehow know more about what the Venezuelan people went through blah blah blah...

I got the specific dates from Wiki.... but after the coup in 2002, they went over in good detail the coup attempt in 1992. While I didn't recall the exact year, the fact that Chavez had attempted the coup was correct. Despite your inability to admit it.

Now do you really want to get all in a tizzy about this? Just admit you were wrong on that one point and we are good. If not, then my opinion of you was obviously placed too high.