The stupidity of politicians continues...

Fascinating. Just skimming this thread, I admit, yet I don't seem to see anyone concerned about the people who are in danger of foreclosure.

The purpose of any such bailout, rightly or wrongly, would be to lessen the suffering of people who would otherwise lose their homes. You can say "Oh, but they deserve it 'cause they're stupid" all you want but that doesn't lessen the effect itself. Rather callous, if you ask me. Not that anyone did, you understand.

The information was available to these people when they got home loans. Many people in recent times have become over ostentacious and concerned with outward appearance and thus spend more than they can afford. It is not primarily due to people preying upon them or lack of education. It is a cultural problem in America that tells people their value as a person has to do with material goods.

Frankly this kind of mentality must be stamped out. Responsible people like myself have patiently saved for years so that I can be in a position to afford a home and pay a reasonable mortgage rate that is fixed. I am no financial guru I simply looked into different mortgage plans from places other than directly from the lender. I would hope the decision to buy a home would not be something someone just came in to do uninformed.

Losing your home is not as catastrophic as many would assume either. These people losing their homes can move into a rental property and begin looking for a more modest home that is more appropriate to their level of income. They will walk away wiser from the experience.

I hardly think telling people that because they have made a mistake that it is callous that they may have to live a lifestyle that I live everyday. Frankly is it insulting.

This is the problem with the liberal mentality of having the government protect people from their own willful mistakes. It takes away incentive to do the proper research and arm yourself with the appropriate knowledge.

When I was younger I got a credit card in college and spent too much money on it. When I fell behind in payments my account defaulted and my interest rate jumped to 24%. My credit was severely damaged by that. However at no point did I blame the credit card company. I did not fulfill my obligation which I knew I had to do from the beginning.

However I learned from this mistake. I slowly paid off the credit card and used money from my tax refunds to pay off lump sums. Today I have 0 credit carr debt and a credit score over 700.

People are more resillient and able to learn than many give people credit for. Nothing teaches people as well as a mistake. Anything short of forcing these people to be beggars on the street would be a valuable life lesson for these people.

I can say with a clear conscience I do not pity the vast majority of these people.
 
Ornot... so we should be upset that people took out more loan than they could afford and now they are paying the price for it? What about personal responsibility? I doubt the vast majority of these individuals were somehow duped by the banks.
 
Superfreak said:
Ornot... so we should be upset that people took out more loan than they could afford and now they are paying the price for it? What about personal responsibility? I doubt the vast majority of these individuals were somehow duped by the banks.
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You conclude that the vast majority were irresponsible because that thesis fits with your moral agenda. I do not: I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm well aware of both the social pressure to own rather than rent and also the predatory marketing practices of many lending institutions. I have no patience at all for people and companies that prey on people's all too human weaknesses.
 
In which case I do pity you.

I pity people who are victims of things no fault of their own, are the victims of others or those who have been victims of fraudulent exploitation. I do not pity the kind of person who attaches wealth to their self worth and foolishly thinks only of immediate concerns and doesn't plan or perhaps even comes to rely upon the care of others when they are easily able to care for themselves.

That does not make me a pitiable person Ornot. I will not let the human emotion of pity transform into contempt for people which is what is shown when we think people are so feeble, frail and stupid that they are beyond the ability to learn from mistakes and improve their lot in life.

It is not kind of you despite what you may think to treat those you see as less wise than you as infants who need to be babied from the cradle to the grave.
 
Odd that you give the homeowners the benefit of the doubt but automatically assume the worst of the lenders. Things like interest only mortgates or ARMs can be a good thing to use if you plan properly. I have considered using it for investment property I wanted to buy.

Lenders are not predatory by offering these things.
 
IHateGovernment said:
Fascinating. Just skimming this thread, I admit, yet I don't seem to see anyone concerned about the people who are in danger of foreclosure.

The purpose of any such bailout, rightly or wrongly, would be to lessen the suffering of people who would otherwise lose their homes. You can say "Oh, but they deserve it 'cause they're stupid" all you want but that doesn't lessen the effect itself. Rather callous, if you ask me. Not that anyone did, you understand.

The information was available to these people when they got home loans. Many people in recent times have become over ostentacious and concerned with outward appearance and thus spend more than they can afford. It is not primarily due to people preying upon them or lack of education. It is a cultural problem in America that tells people their value as a person has to do with material goods.

Frankly this kind of mentality must be stamped out. Responsible people like myself have patiently saved for years so that I can be in a position to afford a home and pay a reasonable mortgage rate that is fixed. I am no financial guru I simply looked into different mortgage plans from places other than directly from the lender. I would hope the decision to buy a home would not be something someone just came in to do uninformed.

Losing your home is not as catastrophic as many would assume either. These people losing their homes can move into a rental property and begin looking for a more modest home that is more appropriate to their level of income. They will walk away wiser from the experience.

I hardly think telling people that because they have made a mistake that it is callous that they may have to live a lifestyle that I live everyday. Frankly is it insulting.

This is the problem with the liberal mentality of having the government protect people from their own willful mistakes. It takes away incentive to do the proper research and arm yourself with the appropriate knowledge.

When I was younger I got a credit card in college and spent too much money on it. When I fell behind in payments my account defaulted and my interest rate jumped to 24%. My credit was severely damaged by that. However at no point did I blame the credit card company. I did not fulfill my obligation which I knew I had to do from the beginning.

However I learned from this mistake. I slowly paid off the credit card and used money from my tax refunds to pay off lump sums. Today I have 0 credit carr debt and a credit score over 700.

People are more resillient and able to learn than many give people credit for. Nothing teaches people as well as a mistake. Anything short of forcing these people to be beggars on the street would be a valuable life lesson for these people.

I can say with a clear conscience I do not pity the vast majority of these people.
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I most ly agree Damo, esp on the self worth to posessions link.
However it is often not as simple as losing your home. You may well owe more than it is worth and you can wind up paying on the difference for up to 5 years now under the revised personal bankruptcy laws.
 
uscitizen said:
I most ly agree Damo, esp on the self worth to posessions link.
However it is often not as simple as losing your home. You may well owe more than it is worth and you can wind up paying on the difference for up to 5 years now under the revised personal bankruptcy laws.
Click to expand...
Flattering, but it wasn't my post. Although mine would have said much the same thing in different words.

The product itself is not predatory and used properly can be beneficial. There is ample opportunity to educate oneself on the benefits/negative effects before heading into such a purchase.
 
"You conclude that the vast majority were irresponsible because that thesis fits with your moral agenda. I do not: I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm well aware of both the social pressure to own rather than rent and also the predatory marketing practices of many lending institutions. I have no patience at all for people and companies that prey on people's all too human weaknesses."

That is the weakest excuse you could have possibly come up with. Society made me buy a home I could not afford? What a load of shit.
 
IHateGovernment said:
In which case I do pity you.

I pity people who are victims of things no fault of their own, are the victims of others or those who have been victims of fraudulent exploitation. I do not pity the kind of person who attaches wealth to their self worth and foolishly thinks only of immediate concerns and doesn't plan or perhaps even comes to rely upon the care of others when they are easily able to care for themselves.

That does not make me a pitiable person Ornot. I will not let the human emotion of pity transform into contempt for people which is what is shown when we think people are so feeble, frail and stupid that they are beyond the ability to learn from mistakes and improve their lot in life.

It is not kind of you despite what you may think to treat those you see as less wise than you as infants who need to be babied from the cradle to the grave.
Click to expand...


IHG,

A big part of the reason we have consumer protection laws, is not to protect highly educated, college graduate people like you. You're smart, educated, and capable of doing your homework.

People like my grandmother, or my Mom, or some person disadvantated by low IQ and poor education aren't going to be as smart as you. And lenders can and do take advantage of these people.

Personally, I want my grandmother protected against businesses that would take advantage of her. I'm not always around to protect her.
 
I'm for laws protecting the consumer just like you. What I am not for is for a massive bailout. If the lenders engaged in predatory practices and its been found they misled borrowers than the government should force them to bail these people out not the tax payers.

The government as a general rule doesn't compensate fraud victims the perpetrator does it or serves in jail or both. If I'm a victim of a con game my government doesn't give me what I lost. I can sue the con artist and he can serve in prison.
 
IHateGovernment said:
I'm for laws protecting the consumer just like you. What I am not for is for a massive bailout. If the lenders engaged in predatory practices and its been found they misled borrowers than the government should force them to bail these people out not the tax payers.

The government as a general rule doesn't compensate fraud victims the perpetrator does it or serves in jail or both. If I'm a victim of a con game my government doesn't give me what I lost. I can sue the con artist and he can serve in prison.
Click to expand...

People do need to learn that they can have to pay a price for their actions. It is called personal responsibility. And this applies to corporations as well.
 
IHateGovernment said:
The government as a general rule doesn't compensate fraud victims the perpetrator does it or serves in jail or both. If I'm a victim of a con game my government doesn't give me what I lost. I can sue the con artist and he can serve in prison.
Click to expand...

I'd like to expand on that. No one is saying that they shouldn't be compensated for instances of fraud. If that is the case then they should be awarded damages accordingly, however if it is not the case & if they just chose to ignore the inevitable ballooning payments that are usually explained in quite detail, then they should be left to suffer the consequences and I as a taxpayer (who's been diligently saving and investing) shouldn't have to have my downpayment compromised by such idiocracy.

We're not talking about people that have lost a job or became ill and had some unforseen circumstance happen to them. The state & federal government usually aids those people and I fully support such measures, but to start bailing people out for this is pure absurdity.
 
uscitizen said:
People do need to learn that they can have to pay a price for their actions. It is called personal responsibility. And this applies to corporations as well.
Click to expand...

You're 110% correct. I especially don't support giving the banks one iota of bailout.
 
"People do need to learn that they can have to pay a price for their actions. It is called personal responsibility. And this applies to corporations as well."

Which is EXACTLY why the government should not bail out the individuals... because that would also bail out the lenders. They all need to be taught the lesson.
 
The govt should not bail out anyone in this situation.
Just my opinion.
Life is hard and some lessons are more expensive than others.
 
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