The War in Ukraine

[Scott]

I've begun to think that when Dutch starts swearing in every response to a subject, there's no reasoning with him. Probably best to just ignore him on the subject.

All the pro-Putin assholes hate me. LOL

I understand Putin's motivations for starting a "special military operation" in Ukraine. Even he's calling it a war now. That doesn't mean I agree with Putin on everything. To give an example, I think that Russia's behind in regards to LGBTQ rights. I also don't "hate" you, though I admit there was a time when you were the poster here I most avoided. Then I realized that as long as I avoided certain subjects with you, we could actually have fine conversations. There's a line from an anime that I really liked:
"The enemy is not to be sought, lest one find oneself surrounded".

From the same anime, I remember a part where the narrator finds that what might have appeared to be an enemy was an ally. Different situations, different roles.

In that vein, I suspect it may be best to avoid most of your conversations on this subject, as I doubt it'll rise above the level of insults, while at the same time being open to talk about other subjects in other threads where we might agree.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I understand Putin's motivations for starting a "special military operation" in Ukraine. Even he's calling it a war now. That doesn't mean I agree with Putin on everything. To give an example, I think that Russia's behind in regards to LGBTQ rights. I also don't "hate" you, though I admit there was a time when you were the poster here I most avoided. Then I realized that as long as I avoided certain subjects with you, we could actually have fine conversations. There's a line from an anime that I really liked:
"The enemy is not to be sought, lest one find oneself surrounded".

From the same anime, I remember a part where the narrator finds that what might have appeared to be an enemy was an ally. Different situations, different roles.

In that vein, I suspect it may be best to avoid most of your conversations on this subject, as I doubt it'll rise above the level of insults, while at the same time being open to talk about other subjects in other threads where we might agree.

Wow. That was a pretty short Ignore. LOL

I've begun to think that when Dutch starts swearing in every response to a subject, there's no reasoning with him. Probably best to just ignore him on the subject.

Your continued defense of Putin is noted, comrade Scott.

 

[Scott]

I understand Putin's motivations for starting a "special military operation" in Ukraine. Even he's calling it a war now. That doesn't mean I agree with Putin on everything. To give an example, I think that Russia's behind in regards to LGBTQ rights. I also don't "hate" you, though I admit there was a time when you were the poster here I most avoided. Then I realized that as long as I avoided certain subjects with you, we could actually have fine conversations. There's a line from an anime that I really liked:
"The enemy is not to be sought, lest one find oneself surrounded".

From the same anime, I remember a part where the narrator finds that what might have appeared to be an enemy was an ally. Different situations, different roles.

In that vein, I suspect it may be best to avoid most of your conversations on this subject, as I doubt it'll rise above the level of insults, while at the same time being open to talk about other subjects in other threads where we might agree.

Wow. That was a pretty short Ignore. LOL

You'd stopped swearing, I figured I might be able to reason with you.

I've begun to think that when Dutch starts swearing in every response to a subject, there's no reasoning with him. Probably best to just ignore him on the subject.

Your continued defense of Putin is noted, comrade Scott.

I didn't mention Putin at all in what you quoted. I did mention you though.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

You'd stopped swearing, I figured I might be able to reason with you.


I didn't mention Putin at all in what you quoted. I did mention you though.

Define swearing. What words do you think should be verboten, comrade Scott?

Sorry, dude, but just like you castigate me for "swearing" in multiple posts, I recognize your support of comrade Putin in multiple posts. Just because you didn't mention him in one post doesn't negate your support for him in dozens of others.

 

[Scott]

You'd stopped swearing, I figured I might be able to reason with you.

I didn't mention Putin at all in what you quoted. I did mention you though.

Define swearing.

From WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University:
"profane or obscene expression usually of surprise or anger"

What words do you think should be verboten

I never said any words should be forbidden, though I do agree with the combinations of words that are forbidden in this particular forum, better known as the rules of this forum. I was just pointing out that you're generally easier to reason with when you're not swearing.

Sorry, dude, but just like you castigate me for "swearing" in multiple posts, I recognize your support of comrade Putin in multiple posts.

I understand Russia's decision to start its military operation in Ukraine. I've explained why, but if you're still unsure, here's a good article on the subject:

Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative

Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.

scheerpost.com

I don't always agree with Russia's stance, such as its stance on LGBTQ rights.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Working on my education again.

This guy is a recent addition to my grapevine.....I dont know much about him.....but I do know that he has great insight into what is going on:

Alex Krainer: The War in Ukraine Just Altered the World Order FOREVER​

 

[Scott]

Your question makes an assertion I haven't seen solid evidence for, notably that Putin is an "aggressive, power-hungry dictator". Russia is a democracy and has a Parliament that, unlike Ukraine's, hasn't been banning any parties that its President doesn't like, or cancelling elections due to being in the middle of a war. Speaking of elections, there's a good quote from a recent article I just found that I think sums things up pretty well:

**
Putin won last year's election with 88.48 per cent when the highest ever post-Soviet turnout of 77.49 per cent was recorded.

"We are facing a war with NATO, just like under Tsar Alexander I with Napoleon, or under Stalin with Nazi Germany. We forget our differences and solidly stand for our motherland whoever is the leader," said 72-year-old pensioner Tatiana P.
**

Full article:

Putin completes quarter century, polls show he's still popular in Kremlin's hot seat

Vladimir Putin marked 25 years as Russia's leader, rising from an obscure ex-KGB colonel to a dominant political figure. He addressed the search for a successor while highlighting his achievements in stabilizing Russia after Yeltsin's turbulent era.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Sooooo......Ukraine invaded themselves? LOL

Ukraine attacked the Donbass Republics literally days before Russia decided to start its military operation/war in Ukraine. These details matter. Again, feel free to read the following article that gets into it:

Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative

Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.

scheerpost.com

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Ukraine attacked the Donbass Republics literally days before Russia decided to start its military operation/war in Ukraine. These details matter. Again, feel free to read the following article that gets into it:

Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative

Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.

scheerpost.com

Donbass is in Ukraine. How can they attack their own country?

 

[Scott]

Ukraine attacked the Donbass Republics literally days before Russia decided to start its military operation/war in Ukraine. These details matter. Again, feel free to read the following article that gets into it:

Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative

Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.

scheerpost.com

Donbass is in Ukraine.

It -was-, past tense, just like the United States was "in" the British Empire, not too long ago. Things change Dutch, you have to adapt to the times.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It -was-, past tense, just like the United States was "in" the British Empire, not too long ago. Things change Dutch, you have to adapt to the times.

250 years is "not to long ago"? WTF, Scott? You really thing comparing a 250 year conflict is equal to an 11 year old one where Russia invaded Donbas and Crimea?

The irony is noted:

I've begun to think that when Dutch starts swearing in every response to a subject, there's no reasoning with him. Probably best to just ignore him on the subject.

 

[Scott]

Donbass is in Ukraine.

It -was-, past tense, just like the United States was "in" the British Empire, not too long ago. Things change Dutch, you have to adapt to the times.

250 years is "not to long ago"?

Not in the grand scheme of things, no. But more to the point, the United States was no longer a British Colony in 1783, 2 years after a decisive victory for the rebels:
**
But in 1781, a decisive victory by Washington and the Continental Army in the Siege of Yorktown inspired King George III and the British to negotiate an end to colonial rule in the colonies and acknowledge their independence, which was codified in the Treaty of Paris in 1783, leading to the establishment of the sovereign United States of America.
**

Source:

American Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm pretty sure that soon enough, western historians will say something similar about the Donbass Republics- at first rebels, then having a referendum on whether to join Russia and finally getting annexed into Russia, akin to how much of Mexico was annexed to the United States after the Mexican-American war. It's just a matter of keeping up with the times.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm pretty sure that soon enough, western historians will say something similar about the Donbass Republics- at first rebels, then having a referendum on whether to join Russia and finally getting annexed into Russia, akin to how much of Mexico was annexed to the United States after the Mexican-American war. It's just a matter of keeping up with the times.

Of course you think that. You support Russia's, meaning Putin's, invasion of Donbass and the Crimea.

 

[Scott]

I'm pretty sure that soon enough, western historians will say something similar about the Donbass Republics- at first rebels, then having a referendum on whether to join Russia and finally getting annexed into Russia, akin to how much of Mexico was annexed to the United States after the Mexican-American war. It's just a matter of keeping up with the times.

Of course you think that. You support Russia's, meaning Putin's, invasion of Donbass and the Crimea.

I supported Russia's stepping in to defend the peoples of the Donbass Republics. Putin said it quite prosaically on the day he started his military operation in Ukraine:
**
This brings me to the situation in Donbass. We can see that the forces that staged the coup in Ukraine in 2014 have seized power, are keeping it with the help of ornamental election procedures and have abandoned the path of a peaceful conflict settlement. For eight years, for eight endless years we have been doing everything possible to settle the situation by peaceful political means. Everything was in vain.

As I said in my previous address, you cannot look without compassion at what is happening there. It became impossible to tolerate it. We had to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia, on all of us. It is their aspirations, the feelings and pain of these people that were the main motivating force behind our decision to recognise the independence of the Donbass people’s republics.
**

Full speech:

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I supported Russia's stepping in to defend the peoples of the Donbass Republics. Putin said it quite prosaically on the day he started his military operation in Ukraine:
**
This brings me to the situation in Donbass. We can see that the forces that staged the coup in Ukraine in 2014 have seized power, are keeping it with the help of ornamental election procedures and have abandoned the path of a peaceful conflict settlement. For eight years, for eight endless years we have been doing everything possible to settle the situation by peaceful political means. Everything was in vain.

As I said in my previous address, you cannot look without compassion at what is happening there. It became impossible to tolerate it. We had to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia, on all of us. It is their aspirations, the feelings and pain of these people that were the main motivating force behind our decision to recognise the independence of the Donbass people’s republics.
**

Full speech:

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

So you have no problem with the US "stepping in" to help defend Mexican people from the Cartels. Awesome. I think both Trump and Putin would agree with you.

 

[Scott]

I supported Russia's stepping in to defend the peoples of the Donbass Republics. Putin said it quite prosaically on the day he started his military operation in Ukraine:
**
This brings me to the situation in Donbass. We can see that the forces that staged the coup in Ukraine in 2014 have seized power, are keeping it with the help of ornamental election procedures and have abandoned the path of a peaceful conflict settlement. For eight years, for eight endless years we have been doing everything possible to settle the situation by peaceful political means. Everything was in vain.

As I said in my previous address, you cannot look without compassion at what is happening there. It became impossible to tolerate it. We had to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia, on all of us. It is their aspirations, the feelings and pain of these people that were the main motivating force behind our decision to recognise the independence of the Donbass people’s republics.
**

Full speech:

Address by the President of the Russian Federation

en.kremlin.ru

So you have no problem with the US "stepping in" to help defend Mexican people from the Cartels. Awesome. I think both Trump and Putin would agree with you.

Situations such as the Mexican-American war and the war in Ukraine are complicated affairs. In the case of the Ukraine war, I think a good analogy would be if France supported a coup in Canada, then the french speakers in Canada decreed that only French would be spoken in schools and government buildings, English speaking parts of the country rebelled, forming "The English Speaking Republics" and then the new Canadian government started killing them for 8 years. In truth, I doubt it'd even get past the first year, I imagine that the United States would have supported the English speakers long before. American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs brought up this double standard in European Parliament earlier this year, only getting into what the west was doing in regards to NATO expansion:
**
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.

Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.

Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**

Full article:

Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace

The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’

consortiumnews.com

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Situations such as the Mexican-American war and the war in Ukraine are complicated affairs. In the case of the Ukraine war, I think a good analogy would be if France supported a coup in Canada, then the french speakers in Canada decreed that only French would be spoken in schools and government buildings, English speaking parts of the country rebelled, forming "The English Speaking Republics" and then the new Canadian government started killing them for 8 years. In truth, I doubt it'd even get past the first year, I imagine that the United States would have supported the English speakers long before. American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs brought up this double standard in European Parliament earlier this year, only getting into what the west was doing in regards to NATO expansion:
**
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.

Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.

Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**

Full article:

Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace

The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’

consortiumnews.com

The fact you keep going back centuries in history to justify Russia's attack on Ukraine in 2014 is very interesting to me, Scott.

By your logic, the US should invade Italy for their enslaving of our Britannic ancestors or England itself for it's abuse of our Irish ancestors including the continued occupation of Ireland.

Your hatred of the defense organization NATO is the #1 reason why I know you are pro-Putin if not an actual Russian working for Putin's troll farm.

Answer me this, Scott: how many Russia areas has NATO invaded? I'm guessing zero. You?

 

[Cypress]

Situations such as the Mexican-American war and the war in Ukraine are complicated affairs. In the case of the Ukraine war, I think a good analogy would be if France supported a coup in Canada, then the french speakers in Canada decreed that only French would be spoken in schools and government buildings, English speaking parts of the country rebelled, forming "The English Speaking Republics" and then the new Canadian government started killing them for 8 years. In truth, I doubt it'd even get past the first year, I imagine that the United States would have supported the English speakers long before. American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs brought up this double standard in European Parliament earlier this year, only getting into what the west was doing in regards to NATO expansion:
**
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.

Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.

Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**

Full article:

Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace

The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’

consortiumnews.com

France hasn't had any colonial authority in Canada in 300 years, and whatever presence they ever had in North America was tenuous at best. There were never more than a few thousand French settlers in 18th century Canada.

For over a century the Russian government in Moscow, starting with Lenin, recognized there was a distinctly recognizable Ukrainian ethnic nationality; Ukraine was an autonomous Socialist Republic since 1922, and it's been a sovereign nation for 35 years.

 

[Scott]

Situations such as the Mexican-American war and the war in Ukraine are complicated affairs. In the case of the Ukraine war, I think a good analogy would be if France supported a coup in Canada, then the french speakers in Canada decreed that only French would be spoken in schools and government buildings, English speaking parts of the country rebelled, forming "The English Speaking Republics" and then the new Canadian government started killing them for 8 years. In truth, I doubt it'd even get past the first year, I imagine that the United States would have supported the English speakers long before. American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs brought up this double standard in European Parliament earlier this year, only getting into what the west was doing in regards to NATO expansion:
**
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.

Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.

Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**

Full article:

Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace

The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’

consortiumnews.com

The fact you keep going back centuries in history to justify Russia's attack on Ukraine in 2014 is very interesting to me, Scott.

It seems you're having a hard time denying the parallels between the Spanish American war and the Russian Ukrainian war. It's understandable, there are so many parallels to draw. However, you may want to pay attention to what Jeffrey Sachs had to say. Did you read what I quoted of his article or did you stop at the Spanish American war? Just in case you did stop before reading what I quoted of him, I invite you to take a look at the post you'd just responded to once more.

By your logic, the US should invade Italy for their enslaving of our Britannic ancestors or England itself for it's abuse of our Irish ancestors including the continued occupation of Ireland.

The Spanish American war started because of issues that the countries at the time thought were relevant. The same goes for the war in Ukraine. You might want to try to put yourself in the shoes of the side that -isn't- alligned with the U.S. once in a while. It doesn't even have to be Russia. Palestine is another great example.

Your hatred of the defense organization NATO is the #1 reason why I know you are pro-Putin if not an actual Russian working for Putin's troll farm.

I don't have a "hatred" of NATO, I just think that it's goals are far too closely aligned with those of the military industrial complex. I must admit that I am definitely -not- a fan of most of the arms industry. Some people I admire have worked with NATO in the past, such as former Swiss Intelligence Officer Jaques Baud. I invite you to have a look at what he has to say on the Ukraine war. A good article where he does so can be seen here:

Former NATO Military Analyst Blows the Whistle on West’s Ukraine Invasion Narrative

Jacques Baud, a NATO expert, denounces western coverage of the Ukraine invasion.

scheerpost.com

Mr Baud is neither an "actual Russian" or "working for Putin's troll farm". He was a man who served his country and had a deep wish to try to bring peace in various war torn regions. You can read more about him here, though you will need a browser that can translate French to English if you're not fluent in French:

Jacques Baud — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

Answer me this, Scott: how many Russia areas has NATO invaded? I'm guessing zero. You?

From what I've heard, it looks like a certain NATO nation played a part in the Kursk invasion. Hawkeye certainly seems to think so and I've heard it, though I fully admit I don't have any hard evidence that this was true. But personally I think the most egregious thing that a NATO country did was aid and abet the neo-nazi politicians during Euromaidan. Had that not happened, I seriously doubt that the 8 year Ukrainian civil war and now Russia's war with Ukraine would have happened at all. A good article on that can be seen here:

Timeline: Euromaidan, the original “Ukraine Crisis”

As Russia actually do launch an invasion or “special operation” in Ukraine, we thought now was a good time to recap on how we got here. The historical, political and ethnic divisions in…

off-guardian.org

 

[Scott]

Situations such as the Mexican-American war and the war in Ukraine are complicated affairs. In the case of the Ukraine war, I think a good analogy would be if France supported a coup in Canada, then the french speakers in Canada decreed that only French would be spoken in schools and government buildings, English speaking parts of the country rebelled, forming "The English Speaking Republics" and then the new Canadian government started killing them for 8 years. In truth, I doubt it'd even get past the first year, I imagine that the United States would have supported the English speakers long before. American Professor and Statesman Jeffrey Sachs brought up this double standard in European Parliament earlier this year, only getting into what the west was doing in regards to NATO expansion:
**
We know what happened next: the Biden administration refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. The stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open-door policy, based on Article 10 of the NATO Treaty (1949). NATO reserves the right to go where it wants, as long as the host government agrees, without any neighbor – such as Russia — having any say whatsoever.

Well, I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians, “Don’t try it.” You know, Trump may want to take over Canada. So, the Canadian government could say to China, “Why don’t you build a military base in Ontario?” I wouldn’t advise it. The U.S. would not say, “Well, it’s an open door. That’s Canada’s and China’s business, not ours.” The U.S. would invade Canada.

Yet grownups, including in Europe, in this Parliament, in NATO, in the European Commission, repeat the absurd mantra that Russia has no say in NATO enlargement. This is nonsense stuff. This is not even baby geopolitics. This is just not thinking at all. So, the Ukraine War escalated in February 2022 when the Biden Administration refused any serious negotiations.
**

Full article:

Jeffrey Sachs: The Geopolitics of Peace

The author explains manipulative U.S. post-war foreign policy to European MPs, explodes myths about Ukraine and urges an independent European foreign policy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcMoDFU1xg&ab_channel=MichaelvonderSchulenburg This is an edited transcript of Professor Jeffrey Sachs’

consortiumnews.com

France hasn't had any colonial authority in Canada in 300 years, and whatever presence they ever had in North America was tenuous at best. There were never more than a few thousand French settlers in 18th century Canada.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that the French colonists didn't fight to maintain their independence when the Brits came to conquer them. They lost, but even recently, the province of Quebec had a referendum on whether to leave Canada, and it wasn't even the first time:

1995 Quebec referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The separatists lost both times, but it goes to show that people don't forget their roots.

Anyway, this is a sidebar- the point I was trying to make is that if France or any other country aided and abetted a regime change in Canada, do you really believe that the U.S. would just sit idly by?

For over a century the Russian government in Moscow, starting with Lenin, recognized there was a distinctly recognizable Ukrainian ethnic nationality; Ukraine was an autonomous Socialist Republic since 1922, and it's been a sovereign nation for 35 years.

Agreed. Now, can you tell me how long Crimea was part of Russia before it was handed off to Ukraine without asking actual Crimeans what they thought of the idea? I'll give you a hint- it was a lot longer than 35 years. Which is why Crimeans were generally pretty happy when Russia annexed them back into Russia in 2014. But don't take my word for it, listen to what Crimeans had to say:

Return to Russia: Crimeans Tell the Real Story of the 2014 Referendum and Their Lives Since

Eva Bartlett traveled to Crimea to see how people have fared since their country reunited with Russia and what the referendum was really like

www.mintpressnews.com

The Donbass Republics are more complicated. But it's pretty safe to say that any goodwill these Republics had towards Ukraine was pretty much gone by the end of the 8 year civil war with the western Ukrainian army. A good documentary on this time was done by a team of German journalists. It can be seen here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkFVNRZv2eM&ab_channel=NuoViso

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It seems you're having a hard time denying the parallels between the Spanish American war and the Russian Ukrainian war.

Over a hundred years of difference there, Scott. By your logic, we can justify slavery because it's in the Bible.

Sorry, dude, but while there are parallels what you are actually doing it saying Putin is 100 years behind the times. He's a thug and the sooner a Russian patriot pushes him out of a ten-story window, the better for the Russian people and also the Ukrainian people. Let peace reign over the land.

Going back to your Spanish-American War scenario, don't forget that GITMO was leased from the Cubans. Same for the US bases in the Philippines; we didn't take them, we leased them. Putin needed access to a warm water port. Specifically Sevastopol Naval Base and easy access to it. Why didn't he offer to work out a financial deal to lease the base and access to it or make a joint base?

It's because he's a thug. A dictator who chose to take by force what belonged to the Ukrainians. Fuck him. Fuck you. Fuck all pro-Russian/anti-Ukrainian assholes.