There are too many mosques in this country

Not exactly on the 'hate List'

Should Islam be on "the fbi hate group list" or whatever?



But they sure are on the FBI and quite a few other Intel agencies radical grouping lists...'CAIR' et al...are a front for their Father Osama..or is that Usama? Never mind just a matter of symantics...Iran is also a really great Nation on the lists of suspects...never mind I meant 'Targets'...:cof1:
 
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Why are you?
I have been clear and direct on my stance. You pretend that certain things don't happen. Such as muslim groups that are not on the "hate list" which clearly are.

Pretend away, and pretend the nation would be better for totalitarian religious restrictions and authoritarian action. I will not. I will defend the constitution.
 
Whatever.............

Blind cleric BB? Like the Catholics blindness to child abuse for decades ?


I have also said and was very clear in this board that I left the Catholic Church for this very reason!..and have written several comments(e-mail) as to why I did to the Pope...anymore canned liberal responses?
 
Just Pointing out that the Christian side of Abrahams family also has problems.
Asshat has trouble seeing this. Or he just writes it off to noahides and joos and such....
 
Just Pointing out that the Christian side of Abrahams family also has problems.
Asshat has trouble seeing this. Or he just writes it off to noahides and joos and such....

wrong, barfbag, I've continually railed against the organized christian faith, the spurious authority the priests claim for themselves, etc. Stop telling lies.
 
I had not noticed that you rallied against virtually all Christian churches. sorry my bad if true.
The fact that it is a church indicated an organization.
Individual christians that do not go to church, now that is another issue.

Did Jesus go to church ? Oh yeah I forgot he went to the JOO Temple, not a church.
 
I had not noticed that you rallied against virtually all Christian churches. sorry my bad if true.
The fact that it is a church indicated an organization.
Individual christians that do not go to church, now that is another issue.

Did Jesus go to church ? Oh yeah I forgot he went to the JOO Temple, not a church.

Jesus was not actually a huge fan of the temple system of elitism.
 
I had not noticed that you rallied against virtually all Christian churches. sorry my bad if true.
The fact that it is a church indicated an organization.
Individual christians that do not go to church, now that is another issue.

Did Jesus go to church ? Oh yeah I forgot he went to the JOO Temple, not a church.
He is pretty much against all organized religion. It is one of the things he and I can agree on.
 
He is pretty much against all organized religion. It is one of the things he and I can agree on.

I am not against them in the sense of wanting to ban them as AHZ expressed about Islam. I think they are almost all, with precious few exceptions, a negative rather than positive influence on the world and the people in it. People have a right to believe in them, and I have a right to blaspheme against them.
 
I am not against them in the sense of wanting to ban them as AHZ expressed about Islam. I think they are almost all, with precious few exceptions, a negative rather than positive influence on the world and the people in it. People have a right to believe in them, and I have a right to blaspheme against them.
Well, I clearly am not for 'banning' them, just that I personally think that they often cause more problems than they solve and that the past teachers really weren't too much in to the centralized authority thing.
 
Rep. King should resign immediately.

I am no fan of the muslim community especially the part that use violence as a means of accomplishing their goals. The point was made early in the thread (I have not read all the thread yet) that Christianity has its own individual who espouse violence. Well, it is debatable as to whether or not these "christians" lower case intended are truly Christian, but that is for another discussion.

The reason Rep. King should resign immediately is that he swore an oath (and I would bet it was upon the Holy Bible) to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. If I remember my Constitution correctly, it guarantees our right to freedom of religion. Last time I checked it was not limited to Christian or Judeo-Christian but rather all or even no religion.

We have laws in this country designed to protect us from radicals of all types. Those laws can and should be used to the fullest extent of the law. But to interfere with the Freedom of Religion for Muslims is nothing short of a slap in the face to all peoples of faith. What would happen if a Rep were Muslim (I'm not even sure there are any but go along with me) and he were to stand up and say, "There are too many churches in this country?" Well, to be honest with you, I would be demanding his impeachment immediately.

Immie
 
I would certainly agree with him that Christians are more mild in the CURRENT era and I would say so in comparing the acts of the extremists of both.
In the United States:

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill ( doing the work of Jesus not doubt) was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in a clinic attack in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who was earlier seen distributing pamphlets from Human Life International[citation needed], was arrested and confessed to the killings. He committed suicide in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama died when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot dead at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.

June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.

October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women's clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.

October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.

May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000.

October 1, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.

June 11, 2001: A bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington on destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year.

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device.

May 9, 2007 An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

This is just the uh uhem PRO LIFE violence in the US. No I am sure Dano or Assface will tell me how the pro-life violence movement is an athiest movement in the US aimed at discrediting Pro-choice Christians.
 
us of a constitution

Rep. King should resign immediately.

I am no fan of the muslim community especially the part that use violence as a means of accomplishing their goals. The point was made early in the thread (I have not read all the thread yet) that Christianity has its own individual who espouse violence. Well, it is debatable as to whether or not these "christians" lower case intended are truly Christian, but that is for another discussion.

The reason Rep. King should resign immediately is that he swore an oath (and I would bet it was upon the Holy Bible) to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. If I remember my Constitution correctly, it guarantees our right to freedom of religion. Last time I checked it was not limited to Christian or Judeo-Christian but rather all or even no religion.

We have laws in this country designed to protect us from radicals of all types. Those laws can and should be used to the fullest extent of the law. But to interfere with the Freedom of Religion for Muslims is nothing short of a slap in the face to all peoples of faith. What would happen if a Rep were Muslim (I'm not even sure there are any but go along with me) and he were to stand up and say, "There are too many churches in this country?" Well, to be honest with you, I would be demanding his impeachment immediately.

Immie

i

there are two portions of the constitution at work here

one - that bans advocation and/or trying to overthrow the governmanet of the us of a government by force or violence

two - the us of a congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion

:readit:
 
i

there are two portions of the constitution at work here

one - that bans advocation and/or trying to overthrow the governmanet of the us of a government by force or violence

two - the us of a congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion

:readit:

I recognize that, but what was important to me and why I believe he should resign is his treatment of religion.

Or are you attempting to say that he is defending the Constitution under your number 1 and in this case it contradicts #2? With this I would disagree. First of all, it is not all muslims that are attempting to overthrow the government. It is a few, emphasis on few, radical groups that so advocate.

Our constitution was designed to protect the rights of the minority not to let them get away with breaking our laws, but rather to protect their rights. If a group of Muslims, or Christians for that matter, are conspiring to overthrow the government the constitution gives the government the authority to halt the insurrection. However, it also still protects the right of those people and others like them to be Muslim.

Immie
 
In the United States:

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill ( doing the work of Jesus not doubt) was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003.

December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in a clinic attack in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who was earlier seen distributing pamphlets from Human Life International[citation needed], was arrested and confessed to the killings. He committed suicide in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.

January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama died when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.

October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot dead at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.

August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.

June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.

December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.

December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.

October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.

January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.

September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women's clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.

October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.

May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000.

October 1, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.

June 11, 2001: A bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington on destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year.

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device.

May 9, 2007 An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

This is just the uh uhem PRO LIFE violence in the US. No I am sure Dano or Assface will tell me how the pro-life violence movement is an athiest movement in the US aimed at discrediting Pro-choice Christians.

I won't tell you that they are athiests aimed at discrediting Pro-life Christians (I realize you said Pro-Choice Christians, but that didn't make sense) but I must ask these individuals who committed these crimes if they are truly Christian? A twisted, perverted doctrine does not make these people Christian. Just because they claim to be Christians does not make them Christian.

Something like 85% of America proclaims to be Christian, but what percentage of that have never even read the Bible? What percentage of that could not even quote or tell you where to find John 3:16--one of the most quoted passages today? Even that it is found in the Bible itself.

One cannot defend the actions of these individuals. No where in the Bible does God authorize these actions. But to insinuate that because these individuals claim to be Christian, therefore, they represent Christianity is Bullshit. I am a Pro-life Christian but I would never consider the taking of an abortionist's life for my cause nor would the vast majority, if not all, Christians, yet because I am Pro-life, I am accused of being insensitive to Woman, being a murder of "doctors", supporting the murder of "doctors" etc.

It is outrageous that these individuals you listed above have defamed the good name of Christ. Yet what would you have me do as a Christian? I/we have spoken out against them just as loudly as your cries for their blood yet we are ignored and accused of secretly egging them on. Nothing we say or do will change that.

Immie
 
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http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=46
Eric Rudolph, At Last
By Mark Potok, Editor




In the end, they found him scrounging around a garbage Dumpster, looking for rotten fruit from which he might scrape a meal. Five years after he went on the lam, accused Olympics bomber Eric Robert Rudolph finally was in custody.

It was hardly the spectacular ending Rudolph's cheerleaders on the radical right had hoped for. He didn't go out in a blaze of gunfire and glory and, in fact, didn't even attempt to resist.

Instead, the Butch Cassidy of the radical right was taken in by a rookie cop on routine patrol behind a grocery store. Rudolph told police he'd been in the North Carolina woods since 1998, living on acorns, lizards and game.

Immediately after his arrest, the speculation began. Had Rudolph had help? If not, how had he survived all that time? Why did he look healthy and fit, even if he was some pounds lighter?

Rudolph, the alleged bomber of abortion clinics, a gay bar and the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, may have had some help. As revealed five years ago by the Southern Poverty Law Center, Rudolph had ties to the anti-Semitic theology of Christian Identity, a faith with adherents in the North Carolina mountains and elsewhere.

When he took a large supply of food from a local health food owner, it took the man two days to report to the authorities his encounter with one of the most wanted fugitives in U.S. history. Officials suspect that other locals may have left food or clothing out for Rudolph. Plainly, there was much regional sympathy for Rudolph's violent opposition to abortion.

Supporting the Fugitive
But what was clearly suggested by Rudolph's arrest — which took place just miles from where he disappeared into the forest in early 1998 — was that if he did have any support, it was sporadic and disorganized.

Speculation about some sort of underground railroad — the kind of organized support network that may have helped Identity adherent Gordon Kahl escape a nationwide dragnet for four months after murdering two U.S. marshals in 1983 — was almost certainly misplaced.

Eric Rudolph did have support of another kind — moral support, from the radical right that saw him as an Aryan hero, the many locals who strongly oppose abortion, and his own mother, who played a key role in introducing him to Christian Identity leaders in North Carolina and Missouri.

As much as he may have been a loner, Eric Rudolph was not alone. He was acquainted with people who had similar beliefs, and he adopted many of them. Some have suggested that Rudolph's ideology was merely a "smoke screen" for his "real" motives — a desire to taunt the police or anger at the outlawing of laetrile, a bogus cancer treatment sought by Rudolph's dying father. But the evidence clearly points to the fact that he was a true believer.

Ideas matter. Especially for an earnest young man, ideas that seem true and correct — even if the rest of the world sneers at or criticizes them — can motivate the most extreme forms of violence. It would be a terrible mistake to assume that all violent radicals are sociopaths bent on criminality and nothing more. The reality is that ideas form the foundation upon which the houses of hatred are built.

Eric Robert Rudolph may have been a criminal. But if he was that, he was also a young man trying to make sense of a changing world. Infected by the hatred he found in Christian Identity and other radical theologies, an earnest young seeker may well have been transformed into a monster capable of mass murder.

Into the Mainstream
In this issue, the Intelligence Report takes a broad look at how ideas that originate on the radical right sometimes make their way into mainstream political discourse. Neo-Confederates, for instance, are working hard to demonize Abraham Lincoln in the American mind. Others are pushing a conspiracy theory that suggests that a small group of Jews are behind a plot to destroy American values and culture. And groups like the neo-Nazi National Alliance are using the ploy of "European cultural festivals" to try to foist National Socialist ideas on ethnic whites.

The issue also examines some of the transmitters of these ideas — foundations, think tanks and even certain sectors of the mainstream media. Increasingly, some of these institutions are helping to spread bigoted ideas into American politics.

When radical conspiracy theories about Jews and immigrants and black people find their way into mainstream political thought, all citizens are the poorer. Instead of seeking real solutions to our problems, Americans increasingly are led down the blind alley of blaming scapegoats and fantasy plots for all that ails them.
 
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