There is no black & white

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Solitary said:
You make a good point about when ranting and screaming accomplish things.

But these days, the first response seems to be hostility.

The people and their needs are not the concern. It is defeating those damned (insert "enemy" party here)


The dems have some good people and some crooks. The repubs have some good people and some crooks.



Wouldn't working towards the time when a rational conservative and a rational liberal could sit down and hash out a problem be a good thing?

Have them work out good solid programs to do what needs to be done, and do it with the least tax money and least intrusion into private lives.
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Often rational conservatives and liberals do get together and make rational decisions. One of my civil rights heros is conservative Republican Senator Everett Dirksen fron Illinois. Without Dirksen, civil rights would not have come when it finally did. However, civil rights would also not come when it did without Malcolm X, Angela Davis, the Black Panthers and a long list of those who were deliberately confrontational. Malcolm X and Dr. King were two sides of the same coin.

Often "the other side" of the argument has to be pushed .. That's what the Boston Tea Party was all about. Pushing the argument.

In truth, any argument, issue, or movement must have fighters who will get confrontational. Democrats are much better when fighters are leading the way. One can say what they will about Barney Frank, but push him the wrong way and you've got a fight on your hands, and you'd better be intellectually prepared to fight it.
 
I support the abolishment of all political parties as entities linked into our govt.
No R's or D's beside names. No republican/Dem Caucus. No political contributions to one party. All contributions must be made to a person not a party.
 
Solitary said:
So its about "whipping" now instead of accomplishing things?

So now a victory in elections means the other side is totally irrelevant?


Thats insane.
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She is absolutely correct.

If someone is destroying your home, are you going to ask them to stop or are you going to kick them the fuck out of your house?

Count me in the boot up the ass crowd.

Accomodation and appeasement may be the first approach, but this nation teeters on the verge of collapse .. AND, my good brother, the future of our children is dependant upon how much we are willing to fight and kick ass for them.

Accomodation got us Iraq .. and if the opposition on the left had been any less weak, it would have brought us Iran.

We are in crisis my friend .. America needs fighters/activists.
 
This thread is an amazing display of partisanship from desh. I cannot begin to fathom how someone could end up that blindly loyal to a political party.
 
OK now Damo I am calling you on your rule about ID's that are like others.

We obviously have a taliban member on here slandering US citizens.
 
blackascoal said:
She is absolutely correct.

If someone is destroying your home, are you going to ask them to stop or are you going to kick them the fuck out of your house?

Count me in the boot up the ass crowd.

Accomodation and appeasement may be the first approach, but this nation teeters on the verge of collapse .. AND, my good brother, the future of our children is dependant upon how much we are willing to fight and kick ass for them.

Accomodation got us Iraq .. and if the opposition on the left had been any less weak, it would have brought us Iran.

We are in crisis my friend .. America needs fighters/activists.
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BAC, if the situation calls for kicking ass, then I am all for lacing up the big boots and kicking away.

But the way things have devolved, it has become so that both sides think every situation calls for ass kicking.

With the attitude shown here, if the other side comes up with a good idea it will be bashed because of the source.

I have no problem bashing someone when it calls for it. But not simply because of the letter after the politician's name.
 
blackascoal said:
Good subject my brother.

What you ask is civil, sane, and responsible, and I completely agree with you in theory. But politics in this country has become a sport and "winning" has replaced the search for solutions.

Take the latest uproar over AIG for instance. The game of politics ignores that both political parties are responsible for allowing the outrageous bonuses to happen .. but to really uncover the truth one would have to recognize the gaping hole in the concept of democracy .. MONEY. BOTH political parties dance to the same drummer, MONEY .. and both parties have been sucking off the corporate teet for a long time.

But that recognition also requires one to look at their own politics and realize that perhaps they've been played for a fool, stuck in a two-party system designed to protect the status-quo. That recognition leads to a greater frustration that they feel helpless to do anything about it. Few actually have the political courage to stand on principle and vote 3rd-party or even take a stand against someone they voted for .. so they defend the ridiculous.

We've become a nation of soundbites instead of a bastion of information.

What America needs is a political revolution where "We the People" is at its core.

You and I can often speak the same words as if they came from the same mind on many issues, then debate fiercely where we disagree. Frankly, we should feel good about ourselves because of it. Seriously. Everybody doesn't have that ability .. and therein lies the beauty. In spite of the contentious rancor that often goes on here .. some of which I participate in more than you .. there is still the beauty of intelligent, respectful politics. It makes the rancor worth enduring.
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Except in this case they were not sucking from the corporate teet but nursing it. Money was not at the root of that but rather an inability to allow something to fail in a free market - ironically enough the same free market that is accused of greed.

The root problem is that leftist thought is oriented to taxing the successful and subsidizing the failures.
 
Solitary said:
I keep reading and hoping, but the forum goers seem to insists that whatever party they back is innocent and the other side is the bastion of evil.


Come on folks, as long as we keep fighting like this we will not accomplish a damned thing. I am not talking about compromising principles. But I AM talking about arguing those principles and getting rid of the "You liberals want a nanny state" or "Bush has destroyed the country thanks to you conservative".


Increasingly, the facts of the issues are ignored in favor of bashing or blaming the other side.

Is this what it has become?
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I'm often accused of this but at the end of the day I really just recognize the truth - that the Repubs have been very bad at spending and the Dems would be and now are worse.

And I have never understood how that equates to me thinking that the Repubs are innocent or good.

I would in turn ask you: If we continually treat both parties as being the same, would they not then have MORE motive to be the same, as they will receive less recognition and reward for trying to be different and better?
 
I can respect an economic conservative, while I might not agree, I can see there point.

I cannot respect a social conservative, I can only see them as unnecessarly trying to control private citizins personal lives.
 
KingCondanomation said:
I'm often accused of this but at the end of the day I really just recognize the truth - that the Repubs have been very bad at spending and the Dems would be and now are worse.

And I have never understood how that equates to me thinking that the Repubs are innocent or good.

I would in turn ask you: If we continually treat both parties as being the same, would they not then have MORE motive to be the same, as they will receive less recognition and reward for trying to be different and better?
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They should both have the same motivation of doing what is in the best interest of the people. If their motivation is anything else they should be replaced.
 
Solitary said:
ib1, that may be perfectly evident to you. But to someone who agrees with Rush, Franken may seem far worse.
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The problem is (and I know you guys who want to pass blame on people equally have a hard time with this) one of them lies consistently and pulls facts from nowhere and the other one writes whole books laying out these lies and hires a team to factcheck his work for him so he gets his facts straight even if you disagree with his conclusions.

Guess which is which. Go ahead.

One runs corrections on his radio show. One never corrects himself. Guess which is which.

They aren't parallel to one another and aren't even close. But you people like to come on sounding magnanimous by passing blame equally on both sides and saying things like Franken is the left's Rush, but that simply isn't true. It sounds nice and makes Rush followers feel better, but it's fucking retarded and inaccurate.
 
There is no comparison between Franken and Rush. Rush went from nothing to become the number one talk radio host in the U.S. What has Franken done equivalent?
 
cawacko said:
There is no comparison between Franken and Rush. Rush went from nothing to become the number one talk radio host in the U.S. What has Franken done equivalent?
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Franken was a poor writer and became a senator. Rush had his dad's radio station handed ot him. That's hardly "nothing" you twat.
 
cawacko said:
There is no comparison between Franken and Rush. Rush went from nothing to become the number one talk radio host in the U.S. What has Franken done equivalent?
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I agree. There's no comparison between Franken and Rush. One brainwashes million and gets dollars for lying constantly, one was censored by corporation for telling the truth.
 
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