U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: ATHEISM IS RELIGION

Ross Dolan:

Try telling that to the numerous courts where various atheists filed lawsuits to defend their religious rights, at which point, numerous courts agreed that Atheism is indeed religion. Take for example, atheist religionist James J. Kaufman in the case of KAUFMAN v. McCAUGHTRY.

James J. Kaufman (the atheist) who was in prison, wanted to form an inmate atheist group and was denied. So he filed a lawsuit for his religious rights and lost at the superior court level. He then took the matter to the appeals court and won. The appeals court agreed with him that his religious rights were being denied. Why? Because Kaufman's atheism was of "central" importance in his life. Below is part of what is stated at Findlaw, at paragraphs 1, 4, and 5.

KAUFMAN v. McCAUGHTRY (2005)​

United States Court of Appeals,Seventh Circuit.​

James J. KAUFMAN, Plaintiff-Appellant, v. Gary R. McCAUGHTRY, et al., Defendants-Appellees.​

No. 04-1914.​

Decided: August 19, 2005​

Before BAUER, WOOD, and WILLIAMS, Circuit Judges.​

James J. Kaufman, Jackson Correctional Institution, Black River Falls, WI, for Plaintiff-Appellant.​


Wisconsin inmate James Kaufman filed this suit under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, claiming as relevant here that prison officials violated his First Amendment rights.   He raises three unrelated issues.   Of the three, the one that has prompted the issuance of this opinion is his claim that the defendants infringed on his right to practice his religion when they refused to allow him to create an inmate group to study and discuss atheism.   Kaufman also argues that the defendants used an overly broad definition of “pornography” when they prevented him from receiving several publications containing sexual content and photographs of nude men and that they improperly opened outside of his presence several letters that he claimed were “legal” mail.   The district court dismissed the pornography claim at screening, see 28 U.S.C. § 1915A, and granted summary judgment in favor of the defendants on the other two.   On appeal, Kaufman contests the merits of those decisions, argues that he should have been allowed to amend his complaint to add another claim, and claims that he should have been permitted to conduct additional discovery.   We affirm in part and vacate and remand in part.

. . . . . .


A religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being (or beings, for polytheistic faiths), see Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488, 495  See Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 215-16, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972).   The Supreme Court has said that a religion, for purposes of the First Amendment, is distinct from a “way of life,” even if that way of life is inspired by philosophical beliefs or other secular concerns.   But whether atheism is a “religion” for First Amendment purposes is a somewhat different question than whether its adherents believe in a supreme being, or attend regular devotional services, or have a sacred Scripture.   The problem here was that the prison officials did not treat atheism as a “religion,” perhaps in keeping with Kaufman's own insistence that it is the antithesis of religion.   An inmate retains the right to exercise his religious beliefs in prison. Tarpley v. Allen County, 312 F.3d 895, 898 (7th Cir.2002).  We address his claim under the Free Exercise Clause first.   & n. 11, 81 S.Ct. 1680, 6 L.Ed.2d 982 (1961);  Malnak v. Yogi, 592 F.2d 197, 200-15 (3d Cir.1979) (Adams, J., concurring);  Theriault v. Silber, 547 F.2d 1279, 1281 (5th Cir.1977) (per curiam), nor must it be a mainstream faith, see Thomas v. Review Bd., 450 U.S. 707, 714, 101 S.Ct. 1425, 67 L.Ed.2d 624 (1981);  Lindell v. McCallum, 352 F.3d 1107, 1110 (7th Cir.2003).


Kaufman claims that his atheist beliefs play a central role in his life, and the defendants do not dispute that his beliefs are deeply and sincerely held.  See Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir.2003) (“If we think of religion as taking a position on divinity, then atheism is indeed a form of religion.”).   We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion.  Fleischfresser v. Dirs. of Sch. Dist. 200, 15 F.3d 680, 688 n. 5 (7th Cir.1994) (internal citation and quotation omitted);  see also Welsh v. United States, 398 U.S. 333, 340, 90 S.Ct. 1792, 26 L.Ed.2d 308 (1970);  United States v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163, 184-88, 85 S.Ct. 850, 13 L.Ed.2d 733 (1965).  Without venturing too far into the realm of the philosophical, we have suggested in the past that when a person sincerely holds beliefs dealing with issues of “ultimate concern” that for her occupy a “place parallel to that filled by ․ God in traditionally religious persons,” those beliefs represent her religion.

If the SCOTUS rules that for the purposes of meeting requirements of the Constitution of the US...atheism must be deemed to be a religion...then that holds for the US and any jurisdiction where the decisions of the SCOTUS prevail. It certainly does not prevail outside the jurisdiction of that body.

But in no way is atheism a religion. It IS a belief system...specifically, it is either...

...a BELIEF that there are no gods...or...

...a BELIEF that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

I repeat...IT IS A BELIEF SYSTEM.

If you want to argue that the SCOTUS decides what is and what is not a religion...I guess you can do that. I simply disagree with you...and the wording of the court.
 
Atheism is, however, a "belief system'...just as most religions are belief systems.
Nope. Atheism, i.e. a lack of religious beliefs, is therefore not a belief system. Your Global Warming religion, however, is a belief system ... and a very stupid one at that. It's no wonder that a science denier, such as yourself, would confuse a belief system with a lack of beliefs.

You probably believe that the ocean has acidifed. You'ved always been a moron that way.
 
...a BELIEF that there are no gods...or...
That is not atheism. That is an entirely theistic statement that completely precludes atheism. It is also beyond your education level so you get a pass, although you'll be responsible for knowing and understanding this once you pass the sixth grade.

...a BELIEF that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.
This too is a theistic statement that precludes atheism. Would you care to try again?

I repeat...IT IS A BELIEF SYSTEM.
I repeat...you are a moron. Go back to your Climate faith and pray for greenhouse effect to bestow you with clarity.

If you want to argue that the SCOTUS decides what is and what is not a religion...I guess you can do that. I simply disagree with you...and the wording of the court.
Your problem is that you will never discuss the matter honestly.
 
The case talks about secular humanism, not atheism.

I'm not sure what point you are making. The court (and U. S. Constitution) say no religious test can be used to qualify a person to hold public office Both support the establishment clause prohibition that government was to remain neutral in religious matters. That is consistent with the ruling that government cannot mandate the display of the 10 Commandments or other religious doctrine. Also, the LA case requires schools to to display a specific , state mandated, version of the Commandments.

The outcome of the case is the same. The state cannot require the person to hold any religious views (including atheism) to hold office in MD.
Flash:

Secular Humanists are atheists. What is it about that don't you get?
 
Flash:

Secular Humanists are atheists. What is it about that don't you get?
What you don't get is the 1st Amendment protects citizens from religious tests to hold public office.

So secularism means we don't want Christians, or any religion, to dictate what people are to believe.
 
If the SCOTUS rules that for the purposes of meeting requirements of the Constitution of the US...atheism must be deemed to be a religion...then that holds for the US and any jurisdiction where the decisions of the SCOTUS prevail. It certainly does not prevail outside the jurisdiction of that body.

But in no way is atheism a religion. It IS a belief system...specifically, it is either...

...a BELIEF that there are no gods...or...

...a BELIEF that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.

I repeat...IT IS A BELIEF SYSTEM.

If you want to argue that the SCOTUS decides what is and what is not a religion...I guess you can do that. I simply disagree with you...and the wording of the court.
Ross Dolan:

Repeating yourself will not change a thing. Look at what happened in KAUFMAN v. McCAUGHTRY, which I partially quoted at post 19. The paragraph that follows the ellipses even cites back to Torcaso. Notice the first two lines below from that quotation.

"A religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being (or beings, for polytheistic faiths), see Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488, 495  See Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 215-16, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972).   The Supreme Court has said that a religion, for purposes of the First Amendment, is distinct from a “way of life,” even if that way of life is inspired by philosophical beliefs or other secular concerns."

The Kaufman case cites several other religious rights lawsuits, thereby indicating that James Kaufman (the atheist) was in a religion.
 
Ross Dolan:

Repeating yourself will not change a thing. Look at what happened in KAUFMAN v. McCAUGHTRY, which I partially quoted at post 19. The paragraph that follows the ellipses even cites back to Torcaso. Notice the first two lines below from that quotation.

"A religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being (or beings, for polytheistic faiths), see Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488, 495  See Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 215-16, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972).   The Supreme Court has said that a religion, for purposes of the First Amendment, is distinct from a “way of life,” even if that way of life is inspired by philosophical beliefs or other secular concerns."

The Kaufman case cites several other religious rights lawsuits, thereby indicating that James Kaufman (the atheist) was in a religion.
You keep lying about the Torasco ruling. I read it. Nothing about atheism being a religion. Stop lying.
 
Ross Dolan:

Repeating yourself will not change a thing. Look at what happened in KAUFMAN v. McCAUGHTRY, which I partially quoted at post 19. The paragraph that follows the ellipses even cites back to Torcaso. Notice the first two lines below from that quotation.

"A religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being (or beings, for polytheistic faiths), see Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488, 495  See Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 215-16, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972).   The Supreme Court has said that a religion, for purposes of the First Amendment, is distinct from a “way of life,” even if that way of life is inspired by philosophical beliefs or other secular concerns."

The Kaufman case cites several other religious rights lawsuits, thereby indicating that James Kaufman (the atheist) was in a religion.
As I said...the fact that the SCOTUS has defined it that way (if they have) in order to resolve a law case in the US...does not give the word that meaning.

If it is necessary for you to define atheism as a religion...have at it.
 
Nope. Torcaso v. Watkins reversed the Maryland apellate court ruling and established that any religious test for public office unconstitutionally invades one's freedom of belief and religion and therefore cannot be enforced.

Atheism, i.e. the lack of any theism, cannot be any theism. You probably should have looked into this before regurgitating what others told you to believe.


There are no court cases establishing the lack of any religion as a religion.


I am an atheist. I am not religious. You haven't thought this through very well.


Nope. You don't get to speak for atheists.


You don't get to speak for atheists. I can speak for myself in saying that I refer to the Bible as a collection of stories/accounts.


You were gullible. The people who claimed to be atheists were probably not atheists. They were most likely profoundly religious Global Warming warmizombies or Climate lemmings. Unwitting and somewhat naive Christians take those claims of atheism on face value, rendering themselves impotent. If you had, instead, gone for the throat in attacking their Climate Change faith, you would have had a very different discussion result. Instead of being permanently on the defensive, you would have bitch-slapped them back to last Tuesday. Marxists of all sorts can't suffer such a scenario so they just claim to be atheists and let you render them invincible.


Of course Marxists of all sorts are going to claim this, after dishonestly declaring themselves to be "atheists." Christianity is their top competition. They would have practically zero competition if they could rid the world of Christianity.

An actual atheist has no theism to be riled by your theism. Christians do not represent any sort of competition to atheists. If someone is actively attacking you for your faith, you should be able to tell immediately that said person is a deeply religious competitor.

I am an atheist. I am not your enemy. Attacking me will accomplish nothing. I can't attack you any less than the zero I am attacking you.

Flash:

Secular Humanists are atheists. What is it about that don't you get?
I don't understand how this affects the court rulilngs.

Can the state or federal government require a person to abide by certain religious belief before he can hold a public office? If your answer is no, then we all agree that the Constitution prohibits this requirement.

If so, it doesn't matter if atheism is a religion because government cannot require him to be an atheist, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, etc. to hold public office.

A person does not have to be part of an (organized) religion to have 1st Amendment freedom of religion. If you are the only person in the U. S. with your specific religious beliefs, you have the same religious freedom as everybody else. The courts cannot determine what constitutes a religion (with the exception of an organization trying to use the tax laws to get exemptions).

If atheism is a religion he has all the same religious freedom as we all do.

What point are you making about atheism being a religion?
 
I don't understand how this affects the court rulilngs.

Can the state or federal government require a person to abide by certain religious belief before he can hold a public office? If your answer is no, then we all agree that the Constitution prohibits this requirement.

If so, it doesn't matter if atheism is a religion because government cannot require him to be an atheist, Christian, Hindu, Muslim, etc. to hold public office.

A person does not have to be part of an (organized) religion to have 1st Amendment freedom of religion. If you are the only person in the U. S. with your specific religious beliefs, you have the same religious freedom as everybody else. The courts cannot determine what constitutes a religion (with the exception of an organization trying to use the tax laws to get exemptions).

If atheism is a religion he has all the same religious freedom as we all do.

What point are you making about atheism being a religion?
Flash:

Atheists routinely mock theists for belonging to religion. It turns out atheism is itself a religion.

Talk about hypocrisy.
 
Flash:

Atheists routinely mock theists for belonging to religion. It turns out atheism is itself a religion.

Talk about hypocrisy.
You can be an atheist (or Christian, etc.) and not belong to any organized religious group. It can be just a belief you hold.

I understand how some atheists smirk at religious people. At the same time, many religious people are very critical and look down on people who are atheists and often want nothing to do with them.

Am I correct in assuming you support the court decisons that prohibit government from requiring any religious test for holding public office, mandating public schools post a copy of the 10 Commandments, or prohibit publics schools from requiring mandatory prayer or Bible readng?
 
I don't understand how this affects the court rulilngs.
It doesn't. Alter2Ego claimed that the Supreme Court decision was something other than what it was, i.e. that the Supreme Court declared "atheism" to be a religion.

The US Supreme Court does not get to declare what is a religion and what is not.

Can the state or federal government require a person to abide by certain religious belief before he can hold a public office?
No. That was the decision of the Supreme Court.

If your answer is no, then we all agree that the Constitution prohibits this requirement.
Yes, we all agree that the Constitution prohibits this requirement.

If so, it doesn't matter if atheism is a religion
It only matters in and of itself. Atheism is not a religion, nor is it a theism, nor is it a set of beliefs. Atheism is a lack of any religion, a lack of any theism, and a lack of any theistic beliefs.

A person does not have to be part of an (organized) religion to have 1st Amendment freedom of religion.
Correct.

If you are the only person in the U. S. with your specific religious beliefs, you have the same religious freedom as everybody else.
Correct.

The courts cannot determine what constitutes a religion (with the exception of an organization trying to use the tax laws to get exemptions).
Nope. The courts don't even have that leeway. Congress makes the laws that determines what constitutes a religion, and the courts only get to apply the law, not create it or refine it or reinterpret it or improve it or embellish upon it.

If atheism is a religion he has all the same religious freedom as we all do.
Technically, this statement says nothing. You just wrote the statement "If FALSE then [he has all the same religious freedom as we all do]" ... and according to formal logic, this statement is necessarily TRUE, which means it provides no information.

What point are you making about atheism being a religion?
Atheism is not a religion and it is not a theism.
 
Am I correct in assuming you support the court decisons that prohibit government from requiring any religious test for holding public office, mandating public schools post a copy of the 10 Commandments, or prohibit publics schools from requiring mandatory prayer or Bible readng?
You are correct for the most part. I believe public schools should emulate religious freedom, meaning students should be allowed to worship/pray/practice, in whatever manner they see fit, but that nobody should be pressured to worship/pray/practice any religion. I also believe that religious freedom must fall within the domain of protecting all the other rights and freedoms of everyone else. I don't care if one student's religion requires he perform an animal sacrifice before the start of third period, if it is unsafe for others, he can't perform it around others.
 
When there are atheist houses of worship getting property tax breaks, then your thesis might be valid.
The idiot got busted on the Torcaso case, where that footnote #11 mentioned Secular Humanism as a religion without a god. Not atheism. And merely a footnote.

But the moron will double down on ignorance
 
Nope. The courts don't even have that leeway. Congress makes the laws that determines what constitutes a religion, and the courts only get to apply the law, not create it or refine it or reinterpret it or improve it or embellish upon it.
Congress cannot determine what constitutes a religion. That completely destroys the concept of freedom of religion. It can determe what is required for an organization to qualify for tax exemptions, but those regulations apply to all charities.
 
You are correct for the most part. I believe public schools should emulate religious freedom, meaning students should be allowed to worship/pray/practice, in whatever manner they see fit, but that nobody should be pressured to worship/pray/practice any religion. I also believe that religious freedom must fall within the domain of protecting all the other rights and freedoms of everyone else. I don't care if one student's religion requires he perform an animal sacrifice before the start of third period, if it is unsafe for others, he can't perform it around others.
Public schools do have religious freedom as long as those practices do not interfere with the normal conduct of business. They are free to engage in organized prayer, Bible reading, etc. as long as it is voluntary and initiated by the students.

Some students (Amish) are allowed some religious freedoms other students do not have.
 
Congress cannot determine what constitutes a religion.
Yes, Congress absolutely can.

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Do you see any clause in there reserving any legislation determining what constitutes a religion to the States or to the People?

That completely destroys the concept of freedom of religion.
Nope. If Congress should ever define what constitutes a religion, everyone will be free to practice it, and or avoid it. Since there are issues pertaining to religion (e.g. religions not being taxed, etc.) the courts need law that define religion. That neither destroys nor modifies the concept of freedom of religion.

It can determe what is required for an organization to qualify for tax exemptions, but those regulations apply to all charities.
That is exactly the same thing. I'm glad we agree.
 
Public schools do have religious freedom as long as those practices do not interfere with the normal conduct of business.
There is no "as long as those practices do not interfere" clause in the Constitution. Public school students have been punished for merely praying, and nothing ever came of it. Also, public school teachers have interfered with the normal conduct of business to hold a "participation optional" prayer session at the start of class which applied illegal pressure/ostricizing (in my opinion) to/of those students who did not wish to pray.

They are free to engage in organized prayer, Bible reading, etc. as long as it is voluntary and initiated by the students.
Wherever that is all there is, that is fine.

Some students (Amish) are allowed some religious freedoms other students do not have.
This doesn't make much sense. Could you elaborate?
 
Back
Top