Yakuda
Verified User
"...and otherr." you retarded piece of shit.
U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: ATHEISM IS RELIGION
- Thread starter Alter2Ego
- Start date
Yakuda
Verified User
Sure it is. How do we know? we know by the way you atheists dipshits are reacting.
We agree, but only as it applies to tax law. Legislation cannot appy to religion exclusively, but only charities and other organizations receive tax breaks.
There is no provision reserving legislation determining what constitues religion becauase the 1st amendment prohibites Congress from passing any laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion. Any legislation defining a religion is limiting the practice of that religion.
What law could define religion other than tax legislation (which must also apply to any other charitable organization and not just religion)?
I am NOT an atheist.
So whatever you think you learned from what I said...you didn't. You still are an ignorant asshole.
Yakuda is an ignorant asshole. Consensus of the forum.
Atheism not mentioned in that tiny little footnote, bitch. Not once.
All of our rights (speech, press, religion) cannot interfere with the the rights and business of others. None of those clauses are specificlly defined because the Constitution would be 1,000 pages.
If students were punished for praying (unless it interrupted school business) they probably took no action to protect their rights. A lawsuit against the school for punishing students for such activities probably would have succeeded assuming the students initiated the prayer and it was not mandated by the school. I have heard some of those stories and often it was made-up or the school did not understand the law and thought they could not allow it--the old "they took religion out of school" disinformation. A teacher led prayer is usually not allowed because the teacher is an agent of the school although the recent decision about the coach leading his team in voluntary prayer complicates the issue. In many cases nobody objects to the religious activities and do not complain so unconstitutional practices continue.
Are you asking if I can elaborate on the Amish students? Their religion only believes in education until the 8th (?) grade and most states require mandatory education to an older age. If a person claims his religion conflicts with a secular law, the test is whether it would cause harm to exempt that student from the law. It would cause no harm to exempt a students from standing or reciting the pledge of allegiance and they can be exempted from that practice.
It could cause harm for a student not to receive an education because of unemployment, qualifying for benefits, etc. However, none of those conditions apply to Amish and they are allowed to quit school earlier--but only Amish.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Then show me that delimiting clause in the Constitution, because I showed you where all legislative power is vested in Congress.
You have not shown that defining religion prevents its free exercise.
False. You are going to have to develop a proof for this because this is simply not true.
Congress should pass legislation declaring all Climate-based faiths to be religions, and thus prevent any laws from being passed that respect those religions.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
Then show me that delimiting clause in the Constitution, because I showed you where all legislative power is vested in Congress.
You have not shown that defining religion prevents its free exercise.
False. You are going to have to develop a proof for this because this is simply not true.
Congress should pass legislation declaring all Climate-based faiths to be religions, and thus prevent any laws from being passed that respect those religions.
IBDaMann
Well-known member
So here you aren't describing religious freedom as much as a lack of equality under the law. You are saying that the Amish and non-Amish are not equal under the law.
While all legislative power is vested in Congress, that legislative power is limited to those listed in Article I, Section 8. Which of those powers listed below gives Congress the power to make laws defining religion? The 1st Amenment clearly forbids Congress to pass such legislation.
Section 8: Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings;-And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Any religion whose educational practices do not result in harm to society (unemployment, welfare benefits, etc.) have that same right. This is the Supreme Court decision, not my opinion. I haven't read the case in a few years and don't remember if they addressed similar religious beliefs.
There are no climate based faiths and Congress cannot declare them a religion.
The Supreme Court imposed this delimiting test for their interpretation of the 1st Amendment. Many powers and limits are not specifically written in the Constutution but come through custom, practice, and court interpretation.
Article I, Section 8 limits the legislative power of Congress to those delegated and implied powers. Otherwise, you are saying the legislative powers of Congress are unlimited unless specifically written into the document.
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Give me an example in which Congress used its legislative power to define a religion.
Such a law violates the first test for freedom of religion: a) it must have a secular legislative purpose. There is nothing secular about a law defining religion.
What are atheist churches?
Number of godless congregations growing across the Western world
What are atheist churches?
Number of godless congregations growing across the Western world
theweek.com
Evidently, atheists belatedly came to the realization that there is social value in participating in a community and fellowship devoted to a core set of universal values and way of living a moral life.
Atheism doesn't seem to mean anything other than the belief religions are wrong.
On the flip side, secular humanism, existentialism, reductionist materialism, scientism are words that have a meaningful system of beliefs sustaining them.
ZenMode
Well-known member
"Atheists have committed human rights violations en masse throughout history. For instance, Joseph Stalin--the atheist--ordered the deaths of between 40 million to 62 million people (at least 20 million of whom were everyday Soviet civilians). Compare that to the 9 million or so murdered by Adolph Hitler, the Roman Catholic, who merely claimed he was a Christian."
Stalin's horrible actions weren't done because he was didn't believe in God any more than they were committed because he didn't like green beans. Muslims do their terrorizing and murdering because they are trying to appease their god and get an eternity of heavenly bliss for their families. The largest percentage of white supremacists are Christian because the Bible calls Jews the spawn of Satan. The crusades were carried out in the name of God, to do his bidding.
Lots of atheists are more committed than you are assuming, Cypress. Many absolutely deny that any gods exist. Many absolutely suppose that it is MUCH, MUCH more likely that no gods exist than that at least one does.
That is fairly substantive. AND they may be correct.
All the debates I've seen on YouTube between religionists and the New Atheists basically just come down to the atheists saying religion is wrong and science is right.
There is doesn't seem to be any cohesive, universal system of beliefs and values underneath that.
So that's why it doesn't seem to me like simply calling oneself atheist is anything equivalent to the developed philosophical or intellectual traditions of, say humanism or existentialism.
I agree with you about Atheism being a type of belief.
I'm convinced none of the YouTube atheists have actually systematically read the primary sacred literature of the the world's major religions, because they seem to think religions are really just mainly about ritual and superstition.
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IBDaMann
Well-known member
Nope. Congress' power are delimited by the entirety of Article I. Section 8 is just one of the sections that grants powers to Congress. Section 3 grants each Senator one vote, for example. Section 1 grants Congress the power to define religion.
Let's see about this.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I don't see the word "define" in there anywhere to indicate that Congress shall never "define" what it means. Obviously Amendment I recognizes the concept of religion, as indicated by the presence of the word "religion". You still need to show that defining "religion" somehow establishes a religion, or prohibits the free exercise thereof, or abridges the freedom of speech, or the right of the people to peacably assemble or to petition the government for a redress of grievances.