Understanding Socialism

Your naive idiocy is not something you should be displaying so prominently.

Unfortunately, it is you who is not only naive but ignorant to reality.

Read. Research. Do your homework. Other countries have been in the same place the US is in now regarding medical coverage. Dozens of countries have successfully come through it and the way they did was to implement universal coverage.

Why fight against the logical, the efficient, the inevitable?
 
You have it backwards. They fund all candidates so all candidates will do what THEY, not the people, want.

Wasn't obama going to decrease our involvement in the middleast? pull out of iraq etc?

He put forward a timetable.

Unfortunately, the mess caused by Bush is not easily corrected. It requires a little more than saying, "Oops, we made a mistake and blew up your country. We'll go home now."
 
I don't recall the exact time. Was the pullout supposed to be this year? If so, he's running about a year late.

In any case at least he's not supporting building permanent bases. Again, there's a hell of a mess to deal with.

Yes. lowering your expectations may be best for you to avoid the cognitive dissonance of betrayal.
 
Pay attention. The people don't want bureaucracies voted out.

Imagine if SS had gone private. If you think a lot of people lost money over the last few years just imagine how large that number would have been.

SS was established for a reason. The problem with people against SS is they forget the reason.

The same applies to any other government program. They were established for a reason. The same with medical reform. There is a reason and that reason is there are people who are not covered. And it will get worse as costs rise.

Maybe it will take 10 or 20 years to insure everyone has access to medical care, regardless of their financial situation. Then those who know little about history will question why universal medical was implemented.

Actually, the "reason" that SS was established was a lie. Anyone who would have bought disability insurance instead and invested the same dough for 45 years would have at least three times their annual salary upon retirement. Instead they get a check to pay for some Alpo and rent in some shit-hole.

Why do you want old folks to live like that?
 
Actually, the "reason" that SS was established was a lie. Anyone who would have bought disability insurance instead and invested the same dough for 45 years would have at least three times their annual salary upon retirement. Instead they get a check to pay for some Alpo and rent in some shit-hole.

Why do you want old folks to live like that?

Because before SS the old folks didn't even have a shit-hole to live in. They starved to death unless they had family to look after them.

And do you know anyone who has continually invested for 45 years?

Talk about a fantasy!
 
The "greed" part is, you don't want to use your own money to care for the needy, you want the government to take MY money and care for the needy! Because you think I have more money than I need, and I don't deserve to spend it how I please. If you can get the government to soak my ass in taxes, it lets you off the hook... you can sleep well tonight knowing all the poor people are cared for, not because YOU helped, but because you saw to it that government stole MY money and helped the needy with it. You didn't have to write the check... it wasn't YOUR money... but the needy got helped, and you can feel good about yourself for that!

GREED! GREED! GREED! Because you are too GREEDY to do your part and help the needy with your OWN money! That's the "greed" part I am talking about!

"There are, in every country, some magnificent charities established by individuals. It is, however, but little that any individual can do, when the whole extent of the misery to be relieved is considered. He may satisfy his conscience, but not his heart. He may give all that he has, and that all will relieve but little. It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed." - Thomas Paine
 
Show us ONE country that had a government run medical plan and reverted to the old "pay or suffer" system. Just one. Surely there must be one.

First of all, it's a flat out LIE that we have a "pay or suffer" system. Have you not heard of Medicare and Medicaid? State Health Clinics? Have you not heard that we passed Indigent Care laws, requiring EVERY hospital to care for the sick regardless of ability to pay? How about you just stop LYING and pretending these programs do not exist?

The next thing you need to understand is, once we destroy the system we have in place, there is no system to go back to, it is gone forever. This is why countries never go back to the old system, they can't... it no longer exists... it was destroyed! You guys keep repeating this as if it's some kind of sales point... obviously the people must be happy, they didn't revert back to what they had before! THEY COULDN'T... THERE WASN'T ANYTHING TO REVERT BACK TO! Do you honestly believe the health insurance companies and providers are going to just sit on the sidelines for 10 years, in case we decide to change our minds? So how would you revert? Go out and find people who wanted to invest in a private health care system again? Good luck with that! Who is ever going to invest in something that is subject to be destroyed on a whim by idiot liberals? The point is, once you've destroyed our system, we can't go back.
 
I don't recall the exact time. Was the pullout supposed to be this year? If so, he's running about a year late.

In any case at least he's not supporting building permanent bases. Again, there's a hell of a mess to deal with.

Obama originally said he would immediately begin withdrawing troops, and by his OWN calculations, all US forces would be out of Iraq by Sept. '09. Well, it's Dec. '09, and we still have over 100k troops in Iraq. He hasn't withdrawn ANY forces, in fact, he has ADDED additional forces.

There is no "mess" in Iraq, the constitutional government is functioning beautifully, the security forces are working beautifully, there is very little violence from insurgency anymore, and oh by the way... we are continuing to construct permanent US military bases inside Iraq.

When are you going to stop LYING to people about this?
 
I don't know where you're having a problem understanding what I write but I'll give it one more shot.

I pay taxes. I do my part. Why do you object to doing your part?

Dixie doesn't pay taxes. He gets his wages garnished because he refuses to pay them, then comes on here and tells you about greed.
 
"There are, in every country, some magnificent charities established by individuals. It is, however, but little that any individual can do, when the whole extent of the misery to be relieved is considered. He may satisfy his conscience, but not his heart. He may give all that he has, and that all will relieve but little. It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed." - Thomas Paine

You can quote Thomas Paine all you like, he never envisioned (or advocated) a system like the one we presently have. This is not about whether we should help those in need! You continue to try and guilt people into believing that is the case, and it's just plain dishonest.

IF everyone paid 15% of their income into the "big pot" it would be fine! We could take care of all the people in need, everyone would be doing their part, all the 'system of pulleys' would work just great! But that isn't the system we have! Many people pay NO tax, some of them actually take money out of the pot! The majority pay very little tax, while the few at the top pay nearly half of what they make in tax.... and you keep screaming for them to pay MORE!
 
First of all, it's a flat out LIE that we have a "pay or suffer" system. Have you not heard of Medicare and Medicaid? State Health Clinics? Have you not heard that we passed Indigent Care laws, requiring EVERY hospital to care for the sick regardless of ability to pay? How about you just stop LYING and pretending these programs do not exist?

The next thing you need to understand is, once we destroy the system we have in place, there is no system to go back to, it is gone forever. This is why countries never go back to the old system, they can't... it no longer exists... it was destroyed! You guys keep repeating this as if it's some kind of sales point... obviously the people must be happy, they didn't revert back to what they had before! THEY COULDN'T... THERE WASN'T ANYTHING TO REVERT BACK TO! Do you honestly believe the health insurance companies and providers are going to just sit on the sidelines for 10 years, in case we decide to change our minds? So how would you revert? Go out and find people who wanted to invest in a private health care system again? Good luck with that! Who is ever going to invest in something that is subject to be destroyed on a whim by idiot liberals? The point is, once you've destroyed our system, we can't go back.

More misunderstandings and confusion.

Countries can very easily go back. Canada is one example. When universal medical was implemented private clinics were discouraged so as to ensure some people didn't go to the head of the line.

That was over 40 years ago. Now there are private clinics trying to start up in Canada and they are contesting the law that originally banned them.

Why? Because there is money to be made. People are generally wealthier than they were back in the 60s. The "boomers", as a generation, did very well. So, now they don't like waiting in line. Now they want the doctor that phones them at home like they're someone important. Meanwhile, the doctor could be operating or treating someone rather then being on the phone.

Blue Cross still insures Canadians when they travel as the Canadian government pays a set amount for procedures and Blue Cross pays the rest.

There will always, always, always be a doctor or group of doctors and other medical personnel ready to jump in where there is a vacuum. Don't worry about that.

As for every hospital being obliged to help the sick the whole point is to screen people before they require hospitalization. Yearly check-ups. Blood tests. Medical care BEFORE they are at death's door. Treating ailments that aren't necessarily life-threatening.

Lastly, preventing people from losing everything they worked all their life for because their insurance has a disqualifying clause.

Don't listen to the crap opponents are spewing. They are lying. Do some research. Investigate.

Not one country has switched back to the old "pay or suffer" system and every country started out with one. There is a reason and it's not because they can't.
 
Obama originally said he would immediately begin withdrawing troops, and by his OWN calculations, all US forces would be out of Iraq by Sept. '09. Well, it's Dec. '09, and we still have over 100k troops in Iraq. He hasn't withdrawn ANY forces, in fact, he has ADDED additional forces.

There is no "mess" in Iraq, the constitutional government is functioning beautifully, the security forces are working beautifully, there is very little violence from insurgency anymore, and oh by the way... we are continuing to construct permanent US military bases inside Iraq.

When are you going to stop LYING to people about this?

Right. Iraq is paradise. The troops chose Iraq over Hawaii for their sabbatical/leave. I should have known.
 
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