Not sure I agree that forgiveness = Unity.
More likely Understanding + accountability followed by forgiveness = Unity.
Unity
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
Not sure I agree that forgiveness = Unity.
More likely Understanding + accountability followed by forgiveness = Unity.
Have a very nice day...go out and make a difference somewhere....
I believe in Democracy first, Liberalism second.
We don't take orders from your kind.
Those two aren't compatible.
Getin the ring
Verified User
unity 
No one wants unity with left wing POS like you, boy.
Getin the ring
Verified User
Joe Biden
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
All good words, but it's a process like two plants living in symbiosis with each other. If one plant starts cutting off the other plant, that's not symbiotic.
For the nation to be more unified requires trust which is gained through understanding, fair accountability of all and looking forward by learning the mistake of the past. Finger-pointing just increases the divide.
For Biden's Unity idea to flourish, everyone must make the effort. Not all Democrats, most on this forum at least, are willing to do so. They want revenge first. They want the executions or elimination of Republican leaders first. They want revenge for Hillary first. THEN, maybe, they'll sit down and talk "unity" and "peace".
That's the same failed strategy as LBJ's "We had to destroy the village in order to save it". Better to employ Sun Tzu's strategem of the Sheathed Sword.
III: THE SHEATHED SWORD
To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to capture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment, or a company entire than to destroy them.
Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities, because the preparation of mantlets, movable shelters, and various implements of war will take up three whole months; and the piling up of mounds over against the walls will take three months more. The general, unable to control his irritation, will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants, with the result that one third of his men are slain, while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous effects of a siege.
The skillful leader subdues the enemy's troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field. With his forces intact he disputes the mastery of the empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph is complete.
This is the method of attacking by stratagem of using the sheathed sword.
It is the rule in war: If our forces are ten to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one, to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army into two, one to meet the enemy in front, and one to fall upon his rear; if he replies to the frontal attack, he may be crushed from behind; if to the rearward attack, he may be crushed in front.
If equally matched, we can offer battle; if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy; if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him. Though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.
The general is the bulwark of the state: if the bulwark is strong at all points, the state will be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the state will be weak.
There are three ways in which a sovereign can bring misfortune upon his army:
By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army.
By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions that obtain in an army.
This causes restlessness in the soldiers' minds. Humanity and justice are the principles on which to govern a state, but not an army; opportunism and flexibility, on the other hand, are military rather than civic virtues.
By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.
Su-ma Ch'ien about 100 B.C. added to this section: If a general is ignorant of the principle of adaptability, he must not be entrusted with a position of authority. The skillful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. For the wise man delights in establishing his merit, the brave man likes to show his courage in action, the covetous man is quick at seizing advantages, and the stupid man has no fear of death.
When the army is restless and distrustful, trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes. This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging victory away. Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory:
He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.
He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting. In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to capture an army entire than to destroy it, to capture a regiment, a detachment, or a company entire than to destroy them.
Thus the highest form of generalship is to balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in order is to attack the enemy's army in the field; and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities, because the preparation of mantlets, movable shelters, and various implements of war will take up three whole months; and the piling up of mounds over against the walls will take three months more. The general, unable to control his irritation, will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants, with the result that one third of his men are slain, while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous effects of a siege.
The skillful leader subdues the enemy's troops without any fighting; he captures their cities without laying siege to them; he overthrows their kingdom without lengthy operations in the field. With his forces intact he disputes the mastery of the empire, and thus, without losing a man, his triumph is complete.
This is the method of attacking by stratagem of using the sheathed sword.
It is the rule in war: If our forces are ten to the enemy's one, to surround him; if five to one, to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army into two, one to meet the enemy in front, and one to fall upon his rear; if he replies to the frontal attack, he may be crushed from behind; if to the rearward attack, he may be crushed in front.
If equally matched, we can offer battle; if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy; if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him. Though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.
The general is the bulwark of the state: if the bulwark is strong at all points, the state will be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the state will be weak.
There are three ways in which a sovereign can bring misfortune upon his army:
By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army.
By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions that obtain in an army.
This causes restlessness in the soldiers' minds. Humanity and justice are the principles on which to govern a state, but not an army; opportunism and flexibility, on the other hand, are military rather than civic virtues.
By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.
Su-ma Ch'ien about 100 B.C. added to this section: If a general is ignorant of the principle of adaptability, he must not be entrusted with a position of authority. The skillful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. For the wise man delights in establishing his merit, the brave man likes to show his courage in action, the covetous man is quick at seizing advantages, and the stupid man has no fear of death.
When the army is restless and distrustful, trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes. This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging victory away. Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory:
He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight.
He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces.
He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks.
He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared.
He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
Let the lies against Hillary go, ancient history.
The lies about the election and attempt to overturn it cannot just be let go, if that happens it will become the norm and eventually then some such attempt at overthrowing democracy will work.
Accountability then forgiveness is required. Some form of censure of Trump and his allies in the Congress is necessary to put on record that such lies and attempts to overturn a legal election will not stand.
Then forgiveness and understanding that both sides are susceptible to such destructive attempts at circumventing Democracy.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Jarod,
Forgiveness can be for selfish reasons.
The person or group being forgiven does not ever have to be told.
It's a way of letting go of grudges.
For instance, I have forgiven Donald Trump. He doesn't ever have to know about it. I still object to nearly everything he has done and is doing, but I can also see that he is a victim of a sick father, and it has totally messed up his entire life. I feel sorry for him. He has no friends, has no idea what it is like to enjoy life. He goes from one crisis to another, and suspects everyone who has ever had anything to do with him of only giving him attention for money. He's very sick in the head, and he needs help. It's very unfortunate for all of us that he has inserted himself into all of our lives, but he was placed on this trajectory a long time ago, and it was only partly his choice. He made a big mistake, but he has nobody to talk to about it. He is a example of a life without love. Very sad.
I also feel very sorry for all the people who have been taken in by his con. They are victims too. Sucks for the rest of us, but we have to deal with it the best we can.
So yeah. Understanding and forgiveness leads to an entirely different approach to looking at this whole thing, one that doesn't lead to confrontation and anger, but hopefully a way to move past this and put this terrible era of bitter polarization behind us. It may not seem possible at this point, but I assure you it is. And we must seek it.
No part of getting angry at Trump or his followers will lead to unity. It will only serve to further divide the nation.
Forgiveness can be for selfish reasons.
The person or group being forgiven does not ever have to be told.
It's a way of letting go of grudges.
For instance, I have forgiven Donald Trump. He doesn't ever have to know about it. I still object to nearly everything he has done and is doing, but I can also see that he is a victim of a sick father, and it has totally messed up his entire life. I feel sorry for him. He has no friends, has no idea what it is like to enjoy life. He goes from one crisis to another, and suspects everyone who has ever had anything to do with him of only giving him attention for money. He's very sick in the head, and he needs help. It's very unfortunate for all of us that he has inserted himself into all of our lives, but he was placed on this trajectory a long time ago, and it was only partly his choice. He made a big mistake, but he has nobody to talk to about it. He is a example of a life without love. Very sad.
I also feel very sorry for all the people who have been taken in by his con. They are victims too. Sucks for the rest of us, but we have to deal with it the best we can.
So yeah. Understanding and forgiveness leads to an entirely different approach to looking at this whole thing, one that doesn't lead to confrontation and anger, but hopefully a way to move past this and put this terrible era of bitter polarization behind us. It may not seem possible at this point, but I assure you it is. And we must seek it.
No part of getting angry at Trump or his followers will lead to unity. It will only serve to further divide the nation.
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Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Stop lying about Hillary. It's over. Let it go.
Agreed on the lies about the election. All of our leaders have a responsibility to tell the truth. The truth is that it was an honest and fair election.
Soooo we're back to executing the leaders of the opposition. No truce, no peace treaty, just unconditional surrender or you'll support nuking all 70M Republicans. Got it. LOL.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I R O N Y from a severe mental case. You really are dumber than a box of rocks ass clown.
Trump had 4 years of us against them. He was horribly one-sided and was extremely divisive. It reflected on this board with rightys saying elections have consequences, shut up. Now they are all let's be friends and listen to our right-wing hate and do what we want too. The right-wing gloating is over. Tou guys made the riles. And yes, the Dems will not be like the right. Biden will govern for all.
Diesel
Well-known member
I R O N Y from a severe mental case. You really are dumber than a box of rocks ass clown.
Oh, ok. I'll take your word for it.
Diesel
Well-known member
Why would you try to have a reasonable conversation with Dutch Uncle?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Diesel,
I have found that, through mutually respectful dialog, that is entirely possible. And rewarding. I have advocated for liberal Democratic policy and he has opposed most of it as he explained his support for more conservative thinking, but we have never gotten personal or nasty about it. It has been educational and allowed us each to gain some insight into what motivates people on the other side of the political spectrum.
It just had to be built on a foundation of mutual respect.
We all really want the same thing. A strong and successful America with as much personal freedom as possible. We simply disagree on the details of what that means and how to get there. But the basic premise is we are really on the same side. The American side. And that's the way the country was envisioned to work. Everybody knows there are going to be disagreements on how to deal with things. It's not the disagreements or the people involved, it's how things are handled that makes the difference.
It has led to some very interesting and informative conversations.
I think Biden will do a good job of bridging the divide. That is his forte. Every time in his life he has made a mistake or butted heads with somebody he has tried to gain more understanding and sought a way to find common ground. Most people who are not extremists get that. Of course not everybody does and Trump is an example. He and his most ardent followers are extremists. Trying to reason with extremists is usually not fruitful.
I have found that, through mutually respectful dialog, that is entirely possible. And rewarding. I have advocated for liberal Democratic policy and he has opposed most of it as he explained his support for more conservative thinking, but we have never gotten personal or nasty about it. It has been educational and allowed us each to gain some insight into what motivates people on the other side of the political spectrum.
It just had to be built on a foundation of mutual respect.
We all really want the same thing. A strong and successful America with as much personal freedom as possible. We simply disagree on the details of what that means and how to get there. But the basic premise is we are really on the same side. The American side. And that's the way the country was envisioned to work. Everybody knows there are going to be disagreements on how to deal with things. It's not the disagreements or the people involved, it's how things are handled that makes the difference.
It has led to some very interesting and informative conversations.
I think Biden will do a good job of bridging the divide. That is his forte. Every time in his life he has made a mistake or butted heads with somebody he has tried to gain more understanding and sought a way to find common ground. Most people who are not extremists get that. Of course not everybody does and Trump is an example. He and his most ardent followers are extremists. Trying to reason with extremists is usually not fruitful.
it boggles the mind how you and your ilk don't think you were at least 50% of the "divisiveness", look at this thread's op. "submit if you want unity"