USFREEDOM WTF IS THAT PICTURE IN YOUR SIG AND WHY IS IT BLAMING PEOPLE ON DRUGS

[Minister of Truth]

Maybe after a significant period akin to the dark ages.
Liberty usually only occurs, when the people fell free from reprisals or such.
The resulting "slugfest" would have to evolve back into some semblance of society based on freedoms first.

Liberty died long before the Dark Ages, because the citizens of the Roman Empire were obviously not free. I think it would be interesting what the world would be like if the Minoan civilization of Crete, which existed before Greece, hadn't been destroyed by the undersea volcanic eruption.

 

[Timshel]

Maybe you're able to reach that conclusion, with your feeble abilities; but stating it does not make it the truth and that was nothing I promoted.

So you believe that it's the Government's fault, regarding the children poisoned by the chemicals used for making meth, and those making or using the meth bear no responsibility??

Are Catholic parishioners responsible for the child molesting priests? Hell, why not all Christians.

The government bears responsibility for that by creating a situation where meth production cannot be regulated and there is no incentive for the manufacturers to follow safe practices. The buyer has no real say in the practices of black market manufacturers since they will have no way to trace it.

Of course, the manufacturer is also responsible. Blaming the buyer is just stupid. It is not necessary that meth production result in such things and because of the black market, the buyer has absolutely no means to reward responsible practices.

Compare that against legal products. For instance, I buy oil. I am not responsible for BP's irresponsible behavior in causing the spill. I can stop buying oil from them and show more care in rewarding those companies that show proper care. That's thanks to a legal market in oil.

Those kids died because of you, not the buyers of the meth.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Are Catholic parishioners responsible for the child molesting priests? Hell, why not all Christians.

The government bears responsibility for that by creating a situation where meth production cannot be regulated and there is no incentive for the manufacturers to follow safe practices. The buyer has no real say in the practices of black market manufacturers since they will have no way to trace it.

Of course, the manufacturer is also responsible. Blaming the buyer is just stupid. It is not necessary that meth production result in such things and because of the black market, the buyer has absolutely no means to reward responsible practices.

Compare that against legal products. For instance, I buy oil. I am not responsible for BP's irresponsible behavior in causing the spill. I can stop buying oil from them and show more care in rewarding those companies that show proper care. That's thanks to a legal market in oil.

Those kids died because of you, not the buyers of the meth.

Are you wanting to continue on the mj discussion, or are you admitting defeat and attempting to branch this into some kind of other debate??

 

[Timshel]

I agee; but unfortunetly, the majority of those that need to mobilize would rather sit around and bitch about how unfair life is.

It's you lazy drug warriors that are losing.

 

[Timshel]

No, he did not, he discussed instead that voting in legislators to represent us was the best solution to factionalism...not having the courts legislate what's popular or not popular or the majority deciding in a vote. That this is the best way to both protect individual liberty while balancing the common good.

This is nonsense. The founders supported common law. Most of these issues were never even intended to be handled by the feds, but of course, if the fed legislatures insist on assuming these powers the courts must balance them, otherwise we end in tyranny of the masses. Further, it became clear that the states alone were not good stewards of the people's rights and 14th became necessary.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

It's you lazy drug warriors that are losing.

Nah; it's the fucking selfish mj smokers, like yourself, who are losing; because you feed the black market and are responsible for every single death that has occured and for every family that has suffered.
The problem is obvious that you've never had to be responsible for anything in your life and now making excuses for what you do, has become part of your lifestyle.

Those are your hands, in my signature.

 

[Timshel]

As an expert witness for Stringy on the matter, I support MJ legalization, and I have never, nor do I plan to ever get, high. Same is true of Dr. Paul, btw, assuming he has been truthful, as I believe him to be.

I smoked when I was a teen and never even questioned the drug war. It was not until after I quit that I realized how wrong it was. Then I came back to it later.

I am not a frequent user. In the last three weeks I smoked one joint with 6 other people. I like to stay a lightweight, because it makes it that much more fun when I do take a few tokes. Plus I am cheap. I don't want to pay money to maintain a high tolerance. What's the point?

For the moment, I have quit. I turned some down today. I might do it again though. Why not? I honestly have a far bigger caffeine problem and this fucking board has more adverse effects on my life. Seriously!

How many of the drug war terrorists drink? Do you do it every day? Every once in a while? Either way you'd probably be better off with mj, but whatever...

 

[Timshel]

I dunno. Do you think that if liberty broke down and society devolved into a slugfest for survival and power in this day-and-age, that liberty would ever re-emerge in human history?

IMO...

Yes, the liberty based groups would win the slugfest, eventually. It works. Now I am not saying the libertarian purist groups would necessarily win, but the more libertarian groups would win.

The dictatorial groups are like the Sith. Their infighting ends up doing more or as much damage to them as the Jedi. A control freak wants to control. He does not just want someone else to control. He does not really want to share control.

 

[Timshel]

If that's all you were able to conclude, after all the posts, then there is no help I can give you; except to suggest that you reread them and try to put aside your feelings.

I'm not required to give you a reason to justify the prohibition.

And I've told you that others attempted to make this a civil rights issue and at times you also made attempts to spin it that direction also.

Yes, you are. Unless it's just "i get my way." If it's for the common good then you need to be able make an argument for that. Eventually, there will be another court challenge. If the government goes in and argues, "because the majority says so" they will lose.

I did not attempt to make it a civil rights issue. You clearly demonstrated that you do not know what civil rights are, once you finally gave your definition and I pointed out that the "civil rights" movement was mostly misnamed. Due process rights are human rights according to the 14th. They are not rights solely granted to citizens. None of that is really relevant, though. We have a human right to engage in consensual and peaceful acts. Substantive due process will overturn laws against the prohibition of marijuana if it is not done through the legislative process.

The fact that you continue to misrepresent my position indicates that you likely misrepresented the views of others as well.

 

[Timshel]

Questioning them is different then breaking them and then whining about the consequence.

You are mixing contexts. I can break many traditions without any consequence. The damages of the black markets are due to prohibition and the attempt to control.

 

[Lao Tse]

1) Not believing in natural law has always been un-American
2) Why would I throw you in prison? Its no more logical to do so than were the Red Scares, Internment, and the jailing of dissidents during WWI, the Civil War, and the Quasi War.
3) Knowing you for the big liberal that you are, I don't believe you are being truthful about the last 4 words of your quote.

Telling people what to believe is unamerican.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Yes, you are. Unless it's just "i get my way." If it's for the common good then you need to be able make an argument for that. Eventually, there will be another court challenge. If the government goes in and argues, "because the majority says so" they will lose.

I did not attempt to make it a civil rights issue. You clearly demonstrated that you do not know what civil rights are, once you finally gave your definition and I pointed out that the "civil rights" movement was mostly misnamed. Due process rights are human rights according to the 14th. They are not rights solely granted to citizens. None of that is really relevant, though. We have a human right to engage in consensual and peaceful acts. Substantive due process will overturn laws against the prohibition of marijuana if it is not done through the legislative process.

The fact that you continue to misrepresent my position indicates that you likely misrepresented the views of others as well.

You're so fucking stupid, that you make really stupid people appear to be geniuses.

The prohibition isn't going to change; because asswipes like yourself just want to sit around and whine how unjust it all is.
Boo - fucking - hoo.
Grow a pair and man up, you fucking punk.

You're now saying that you didn't attempt to make it a civil rights issue; but yet you continue to try and say you have a civil right to smoke mj and then you denigrate the Civil Rights movement by trying to make it appear that you know more abou it, then those who participated.
You're a fucking joke.

The fact that you keep coming back, to have your ass spanked, probably means that you like getting it creamed also.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

You are mixing contexts. I can break many traditions without any consequence. The damages of the black markets are due to prohibition and the attempt to control.

The damage from the black market comes from dipshits like you, who have never been held responsbile for a fucking thing in there whole fucked up lives.
You keep supporting the black market and by doing so, you fund the gangs that commit the deaths and create the sorrow for others.

The really sad part is that you truly believe that you're not responsible; but then that is just more proof that your thinking is fucked up and that you have't a clue what being an adult is about.

 

[Timshel]

Are you wanting to continue on the mj discussion, or are you admitting defeat and attempting to branch this into some kind of other debate??

I beat your ass on the MJ debate. You did not even attempt to provide an argument for prohibition. At least ID put something forward, we'll see where he can go with it.

If anything, meth, is a harder debate for my position. I will discuss it, some, if you are willing to admit defeat on MJ. But your failure on the meth lab example just makes it even clearer that you can't support your claim that mj use leads to the damages of the black market. The black market exists because of prohibition. The drug warriors are responsible for the damage it causes.

 

[Timshel]

Nah; it's the fucking selfish mj smokers, like yourself, who are losing; because you feed the black market and are responsible for every single death that has occured and for every family that has suffered.
The problem is obvious that you've never had to be responsible for anything in your life and now making excuses for what you do, has become part of your lifestyle.

Those are your hands, in my signature.

Uh-huh... Here comes the parade.

Again, you resort to the ad homs, claiming I am some sort of bum and that is the reason for my views. Fail! You don't know what you are talking about and if you did, you would stfu.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I beat your ass on the MJ debate. You did not even attempt to provide an argument for prohibition. At least ID put something forward, we'll see where he can go with it.

If anything, meth, is a harder debate for my position. I will discuss it, some, if you are willing to admit defeat on MJ. But your failure on the meth lab example just makes it even clearer that you can't support your claim that mj use leads to the damages of the black market. The black market exists because of prohibition. The drug warriors are responsible for the damage it causes.

The only thing you beat, was your own meat; you fucking dumbass son of a bitch.
I didn't discuss the meth lab situaiton with you; because you obviously were having a problem in dealing with getting fucked on the mj debate.

The black market exists; because uncaring shit heads, like yourself, would rather soothe your knowledge that your promoting killing people, by getting high.

Your hands are bloody and no amount of you denying it, will ever change the fact that you support murder.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

Uh-huh... Here comes the parade.

Again, you resort to the ad homs, claiming I am some sort of bum and that is the reason for my views. Fail! You don't know what you are talking about and if you did, you would stfu.

I never used the word "bum"; but if you want to describe yourself as such, that's up to you.

The only one that needs to stfu, is you and your lack of taking responsiblity for your actions.
Or are you going to get your parents to make excuses for your asinine behavior, again.

 

[Timshel]

You're so fucking stupid, that you make really stupid people appear to be geniuses.

The prohibition isn't going to change; because asswipes like yourself just want to sit around and whine how unjust it all is.
Boo - fucking - hoo.
Grow a pair and man up, you fucking punk.

Booooring... Been in marches, done plenty of protest and I have given money for this cause. Again, you are talking out of your ass.

You're now saying that you didn't attempt to make it a civil rights issue; but yet you continue to try and say you have a civil right to smoke mj and then you denigrate the Civil Rights movement by trying to make it appear that you know more abou it, then those who participated.
You're a fucking joke.

The fact that you keep coming back, to have your ass spanked, probably means that you like getting it creamed also.

Again, you don't know what a civil right is. I am still not claiming this is a civil right. It's a human right.

Where did I indicate any knowledge about the movement superior to the participants? You continue to make these silly straw man arguments without offering anything to support them.

You still have not made an argument for prohibition of mj.

 

[Timshel]

The damage from the black market comes from dipshits like you, who have never been held responsbile for a fucking thing in there whole fucked up lives.
You keep supporting the black market and by doing so, you fund the gangs that commit the deaths and create the sorrow for others.

The really sad part is that you truly believe that you're not responsible; but then that is just more proof that your thinking is fucked up and that you have't a clue what being an adult is about.

Continuing to repeat your assertion over and over again is not an argument for it. See this is why I get frustrated with you.

Why don't you deal with the points I made about your meth lab example? Do you want to pick another example?

 

[Timshel]

The only thing you beat, was your own meat; you fucking dumbass son of a bitch.
I didn't discuss the meth lab situaiton with you; because you obviously were having a problem in dealing with getting fucked on the mj debate.

The black market exists; because uncaring shit heads, like yourself, would rather soothe your knowledge that your promoting killing people, by getting high.

Your hands are bloody and no amount of you denying it, will ever change the fact that you support murder.

The black market exists because selling it was made illegal by control freaks. There can be no legal market because drug warriors will not allow it. The blood is on your hands.