Victory for Gun Rights

[SmarterthanYou]

I don't think the results that turned up pertain to this discussion.

The 3% doctrine goes like this.

In the revolutionary war, only about 3% of the population of the colonies actively fought against the british. This is discounting the colonial army of regulars. Now, take that 3% to today. There are 300 million people in the country. That equates to 9 million gun owners, out of 80 million, that are willing to actively fight the government. That bars any unforeseen incidents that would prompt a higher number to respond.

Now, there are about 3.5 million active duty military. Another million in national guard units. maybe 800,000 law enforcement agents, federal and state. Even if every single member of the military and law enforcement were united in fighting against their own citizens, you have the following:

9 million American citizens vs. 6 million standing army members.

who's gonna win?

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Not really. The population, the baby boomers, are aging. They want their pensions and medical coverage. They're retiring. They don't want people messing up their golf course. Unless they can hire a caddy to carry their rifle you can count them out.

Yes, they are retiring. And MY generation, MY people are taking there place. And we are not so complacent as they.

 

[apple0154]

The 3% doctrine goes like this.

In the revolutionary war, only about 3% of the population of the colonies actively fought against the british. This is discounting the colonial army of regulars. Now, take that 3% to today. There are 300 million people in the country. That equates to 9 million gun owners, out of 80 million, that are willing to actively fight the government. That bars any unforeseen incidents that would prompt a higher number to respond.

Now, there are about 3.5 million active duty military. Another million in national guard units. maybe 800,000 law enforcement agents, federal and state. Even if every single member of the military and law enforcement were united in fighting against their own citizens, you have the following:

9 million American citizens vs. 6 million standing army members.

who's gonna win?

There are two main differences between the time of the revolutionary war and today.

During the time of the revolutionary war people didn't have a tie to the government like they do today. Nor were they tied to civilization such as supermarkets and highways and all the other things we take for granted. Today, destruction of the government would mean destruction of their lives, as they know it.

The second thing is people were younger. There were few retirees. It's easier to change at 30 than it is at 60.

A large segment of the population is baby boomers. They lived their life and are expecting the rewards which are/were put in place by government. Who is going to mail the pension check? Pick up the garbage? Who is going to direct society?

If the revolutionaries won there would be massive disruption and those folks don't want disruption. They don't want a rebuilding period. They would back the government even though they may agree with the revolutionaries unless, of course, the government was extremely bad.

 

[apple0154]

Yes, they are retiring. And MY generation, MY people are taking there place. And we are not so complacent as they.

Agreed, however, you don't have the numbers or the power.

The 60s generation, the baby boomers, had the numbers and it took years and years to change just a few things.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

There are two main differences between the time of the revolutionary war and today.

During the time of the revolutionary war people didn't have a tie to the government like they do today. Nor were they tied to civilization such as supermarkets and highways and all the other things we take for granted. Today, destruction of the government would mean destruction of their lives, as they know it.

so?

The second thing is people were younger. There were few retirees. It's easier to change at 30 than it is at 60.

the majority of that 3% are former military personnel.

A large segment of the population is baby boomers. They lived their life and are expecting the rewards which are/were put in place by government. Who is going to mail the pension check? Pick up the garbage? Who is going to direct society?

we will.

If the revolutionaries won there would be massive disruption and those folks don't want disruption. They don't want a rebuilding period. They would back the government even though they may agree with the revolutionaries unless, of course, the government was extremely bad.

so?

 

[Airstrip One]

Apple, it is fallacious to assume that because the Boomers were a miserable failure that every other generation must be as well. Appeal to Personal/Generational Experience, as it were.

 

[Good Luck]

They would back the government even though they may agree with the revolutionaries unless, of course, the government was extremely bad.

Well, fucking DUH, dough brain.

The central premise to the idea of an actual revolt by the U.S. populace, in numbers large enough to require military response, IS that the government will have gotten bad enough for the people to prefer revolt to continued existence under a corrupt regime.

As I have stated repeatedly, I hope and pray such a day never comes. And, to that end, the greater the power of force retained by the people, the smaller the chance that force will ever need to be used. And, conversely, the greater the disparity between the power of force in the people, and the power of force in the government, the greater the probability the government will use their power to usurp more power until the only recourse of the people against growing despotism is armed revolt.

 

[apple0154]

Apple, it is fallacious to assume that because the Boomers were a miserable failure that every other generation must be as well. Appeal to Personal/Generational Experience, as it were.

A miserable failure? Surely you jest. They confronted the war mongers and said, "Hell no, we won't go!"

That was, in my view, their greatest accomplishment. Citizens defying their government regarding war. However, we had woman's rights blossom. Medicare/medicaid.

The freedom generation when viewed how society was prior to that time.

My point is/was it took time and should overt, violent opposition to government occur it will be stamped out.

 

[apple0154]

Well, fucking DUH, dough brain.

The central premise to the idea of an actual revolt by the U.S. populace, in numbers large enough to require military response, IS that the government will have gotten bad enough for the people to prefer revolt to continued existence under a corrupt regime.

As I have stated repeatedly, I hope and pray such a day never comes. And, to that end, the greater the power of force retained by the people, the smaller the chance that force will ever need to be used. And, conversely, the greater the disparity between the power of force in the people, and the power of force in the government, the greater the probability the government will use their power to usurp more power until the only recourse of the people against growing despotism is armed revolt.

Hello? The point is it's nowhere near bad enough but the dough brains are the ones claiming it's "almost there". If they didn't believe that to be so this exchange wouldn't be happening. No one would be thinking about it except, well, except the dough brains. Got it?

 

[Airstrip One]

A miserable failure? Surely you jest. They confronted the war mongers and said, "Hell no, we won't go!"

That was, in my view, their greatest accomplishment. Citizens defying their government regarding war. However, we had woman's rights blossom. Medicare/medicaid.

The freedom generation when viewed how society was prior to that time.

My point is/was it took time and should overt, violent opposition to government occur it will be stamped out.

We had citizens defy the government during WWII as well, and none of them were Boomers...

 

[Good Luck]

Hello? The point is it's nowhere near bad enough but the dough brains are the ones claiming it's "almost there". If they didn't believe that to be so this exchange wouldn't be happening. No one would be thinking about it except, well, except the dough brains. Got it?

Have I said it was near? No. So what is there to get, except you are, as usual, bringing out stupid strawmen arguments to support your stupid positions.

But it does not MATTER how "close" the need for revolt is. The fact is the 2nd Amendment was designed for the very purpose of giving the people the means to seriously threaten armed revolt if the government ever does get too big for its britches. Unfortunately, the 2nd Amendment has been, essentially, gutted to the point that its purpose is significantly negated. And, not-coincidentally, government has been making repeated encroachments on our other liberties.

If we are to PREVENT the need for armed revolt, we need to recognize the real purpose of the 2nd Amendment (no, it is NOT about hunting, and only partially about self defense) and give back the rights of the people to those arms it was intended to protect. ie: "...every other terrible implement of the soldier....

 

[DamnYankee]

Wow. It was rather clear. You stop there because it could significantly degrade the nation's ability to defend itself.

Isn't that the point? According to some posters, the militia should be able to overthrow the government, so it should have the tools necessary to do so.

 

[DamnYankee]

Apple, it is fallacious to assume that because the Boomers were a miserable failure that every other generation must be as well. Appeal to Personal/Generational Experience, as it were.

Correction: the 60's generation was a miserable failure. Unless of course you consider dumbing down subsequent generations and destroying the Constitution, their goals, success.

 

[CensoredRed]

the problem with your theory is that too many of 'the people' would rather live on their knees instead of maintain their rule over the government.

Absolutely true. In the wake of 9-11 people were more than happy with the USPatriot Act in the interest of keeping us safe when it truly affected our rights. And, I can remember some saying 'if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about' when it was questioned. I have no faith in most of my fellow-countrymen and women standing up to the government.