Was Nixon Guilty? Trump Fan And Convict Roger Stone Doesn't Think So.

[Walt]

If Nixon nor Trump have been convicted of anything, how can your fellow lefty claim they are guilty.

Nixon accepted a pardon, which is the legal equivalent of pleading no contest, which in turn is basically a guilty plea. Nixon decided not to deny guilt, which in the eyes of the law makes him as guilty as if he was convicted. Actually, anyone who pleads guilty or no contest is technically not convicted, which is not much of a defense.

trump has also plead no contest in the crimes of his foundation. he will probably be found not guilty by the Senate in the impeachment.

Sometimes guilty people get away with their crimes. I can say he is guilty, because of freedom of speech. To sue me for slander, trump would have to prove he was not guilty beyond a point that any reasonable person would believe him to be guilty. That is a legal standard he could never make.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

Nixon was guilty of paying off his criminals and obstructing justice. If Ford did not pardon him, he may have wound up in jail.

That would have been the best outcome.

Getting pardoned for no other reason that agreeing to leave was far too lenient, and it set a bad example. It definitely enforced the belief that if you are powerful enough, and rich enough, and have enough connections that you are indeed above the law. Especially seeing how Nixon worked outside the US government as a candidate and made deals with the North Vietnamese. That prolonged the war and got thousands more killed. Nixon should have rightly gone to prison, ideally.

 

[CFM]

Nixon accepted a pardon, which is the legal equivalent of pleading no contest, which in turn is basically a guilty plea. Nixon decided not to deny guilt, which in the eyes of the law makes him as guilty as if he was convicted. Actually, anyone who pleads guilty or no contest is technically not convicted, which is not much of a defense.

trump has also plead no contest in the crimes of his foundation. he will probably be found not guilty by the Senate in the impeachment.

Sometimes guilty people get away with their crimes. I can say he is guilty, because of freedom of speech. To sue me for slander, trump would have to prove he was not guilty beyond a point that any reasonable person would believe him to be guilty. That is a legal standard he could never make.

No in the least bit but go on believing some tripe a fellow lefty told you.

He will be found not guilty by the Senate which means the Senate believes no crimes were committed. You may not like it but that is the law, boy.

You can claim anything you want. That doesn't make it true

Why would Trump sue an insignificant, n-loving, piss ant like you for anything. He's worth billions and you aren't worth shit in a nigger's back yard.

 

[Nordberg]

Hello Nordberg,



That would have been the best outcome.

Getting pardoned for no other reason that agreeing to leave was far too lenient, and it set a bad example. It definitely enforced the belief that if you are powerful enough, and rich enough, and have enough connections that you are indeed above the law. Especially seeing how Nixon worked outside the US government as a candidate and made deals with the North Vietnamese. That prolonged the war and got thousands more killed. Nixon should have rightly gone to prison, ideally.

Ford established the precedent that the prez is not responsible for what he does and is above the law. Nixon should have faced the courts like anyone else.

 

[PoliTalker]

Starr is carrying on about how bipartisan it was during Nixon.

Hello Ken Starr. We didn't have Fox then. Everybody got the same news. All the channels had the same news.

And we didn't have twitter or the internet or cell phones or social media.

YUGE difference!

You can't claim this needs to track the way it went down for Nixon.

Hello, if Nixon had twitter he wouldn't have been thrown out of office. He would have been able to bypass the media, wouldn't have been at the mercy of the media. Would have been able to control his own story.

 

[PoliTalker]

Up until a certain point, all the Republicans were with Nixon.

when those dominoes fell, it happened very quickly.

First they were with Nixon, then there were against him.

Kind of like the way Republicans handled Trump during the campaign, when the Access Holllywood video came out. First they were with him, then all of a sudden they were against him.

Can Trump tweet his way out of this?

Is it all just 'locker room talk?'

 

[PoliTalker]

The Clinton impeachment was a bogus one for a very low grade crime.

Really, it was the Republicans trying to even the scales after Nixon.

Thus, Republicans cheapened impeachment.

Republicans lowered the Barr.

 

[Into the Night]

Stone was wrong about Nixon and he's wrong about Trump.

Stone's opinion is not a proof.

 

[Into the Night]

There is no imperial presidency, so, yes, Trump and Nixon were and are and forever will be . . . guilty.

Of what?

 

[Into the Night]

Says the backer of a Criminal!

What crime?

 

[Into the Night]

Nixon was going to fight it to the end, when Republicans told him with no uncertainty that he would be convicted. At that time, Republicans were willing to vote for conviction, if the evidence was complete. Nixon went on to only agree to resign if he were promised a pardon. That was a pardon that he accepted.

The Supreme Court has found that accepting a pardon is the same as pleading no contest to being guilty. If you claim you are innocent, you are supposed to refuse the pardon. A pardon could be seen as a plea bargain where you admit you are guilty, and they agree not to punish you for being guilty.

trump's supposed charity has conceded guilt on several points. While debts are hard to get past corporate firewalls, criminal guilt is very easy to get past a corporate firewall.

Guilt of what?

 

[Into the Night]

Trump fans are in total denial of all of Trump's very very questionable remarks and decisions.

What questionable remarks and decisions? Void argument fallacy.

They guy is messed up.

Describe 'messed up'.

He has no morals. None! He fights dirty.

Inversion fallacy. You are describing the Democrats.

He does not represent the majority of the nation, which does not want that.

The President is not elected by popular vote.

The ones who buy in are trying to ignore the immorality

You are describing Democrats again.

because he stokes their fantasies and supports their conservative myths.

What 'conservative myths'? Void argument fallacy. Buzzword fallacy.

It's not working.

Void argument fallacy.

The wheels are coming off.

Void argument fallacy.

He got impeached.

So?

If his sycophants didn't have this majority in the Senate,

Well, they do. Deal with it. The Democrats were stupid enough to impeach him anyway, and without even listing a crime.

if Trump didn't have the absolute power of the constant threat of tweet-shaming,

The Senate is not controlled by Twitter.

he would be the first President ever to be thrown out of office.

Obviously, he won't be.

Trump's precarious cling to power cannot last.

Precarious? Have you seen his rallies???

We are going to see the end of this extremism, sooner or later.

Democrat extremism is going to cost the Democrats a lot this election season. They've already shot themselves in the foot trying to aim for their own head.

We are not an extreme nation.

Correct. The Democrats have become an extreme party, however.

Most of us have had quite enough, a long time ago.

Then leave the Democrats. Oh...that's right...you WANT their extremism.

He has approached absolute power,

Queen Nancy is a she.

and absolute power always corrupts, absolutely. That is what is happening.

Already happened to Queen Nancy.

Trump fans, I hope you see just how barely this whole thing is managing to hang on.

You are describing the Democrats again.

America did not vote for Trump.

Correct. The electoral college did. That's in the Constitution, you know.

The popular vote went against him.

The President is not elected by popular vote. No popular vote was take for President.

And Hillary is no angel, that's for sure.

The Wicked Witch of the East? That's for sure.

Many of us who voted for her had to hold our nose to do so.

Your problem. You still voted for her.

You are a vocal minority.

No. You are describing the Democrats again.

All of your fantasies about the biggest inauguration and the polls being wrong, that's all BS.

News polls don't mean anything. I notice you like to quote them anyway, though.

You already lost the people's House.

We shall see what happens in November.

You are a small number of Senate seats away from losing all your ugly anti-social pipe dreams.

We shall see what happens in November.

The more you push, the more BS you swallow and expect us to not notice,

Void argument fallacy.

the more the rest of us are going to be motivated to make sure Trump loses in November.

With THOSE clowns as nominees???

You can't win this.

If THAT's all you've got, we will definitely win this!

It has gotten too ugly.

Describe 'too ugly'.

We have had enough.

You are not the king. You don't get to speak for anyone but yourself.

We want our country back.

You are no the king. You don't get to speak for anyone but yourself.

We need our country back.

From where?

The world needs good America back.

It has a good America. Thanks Trump!

Being a bad ass has not worked out well.

Describe 'bad ass'.

You got to try your little experiment in extreme right wing policy and it has failed. It never could have worked. People prefer nice over mean.

Void argument fallacy. Appeal to emotion fallacy.

This hateful thing where you think other powerless ordinary people are the problem? Immigrants and minorities? That's BS, You need to forget that.

Only the Democrats think immigration is a problem. They don't think there's enough of it. Only the Democrats think the 'minorities' are a problem. They are the only ones even mentioning 'minorities' as 'disadvantaged'. Stuff your racism and bigotry elsewhere, dude.

It's the powerful who make the decisions.

Nope. We ALL make decisions.

Now, you think Democrats are the problem.

They are. They want to destroy the Constitution and replace it with fascism by oligarchy.

That's wrong.

I agree. That's wrong. Fascism and oligarchies are unconstitutional.

They are not ultimately the most powerful.

Agreed. What little power the Democrats have is going to be lost in November.

Too many of them are controlled by the rich.

Bill Gates, a rich Democrat. Obama, a rich Democrat. Joe Biden, a rich Democrat. Bill and Hillary Clinton, rich Democrats. Trump, a rich conservative, obviously not controlled by any Democrat. Trump is not forcing people to attend his rallies and to support him.

Both parties have too much corruption.

Void argument fallacy.

It is the super rich power junkies.

Buzzword fallacy.

That's the problem. Always has been.

Void argument fallacy.

The corrupting influence over both parties.

Void argument fallacy.

Right back to the Military Industrial Complex.

What about it? How does this make Hillary rich? Oh...that's right...she SOLD uranium rights to the Russians!

And now we have the Medical Industrial Complex.

I happen to support people making medicines and equipment for medical use.

Should we hate them for it? No!

Paradox. You are arguing hate for them. Now you turn around and say otherwise??? Which is it, dude?

Hatred is wrong. We shouldn't hate anybody. Hatred consumes you, makes rational thought impossible.

Irrational. Which is it, dude?

We need to understand that a logical approach is required, not an emotional one.

Irrational. Which is it, dude?

Hatred is actually not logical.

A paradox is not logical. Which is it, dude?

We need to rationally understand reality,

You are being irrational. Which is it, dude? Buzzword fallacy.

and we need to get organized against the real enemy, the super-rich.

Irrational. Which is it, dude?

And we need to spread the word to others so everyone understands the same thing.

Irrational. Which is it, dude?

All of this garbage about other powerless people we are supposed to hate?

Irrational. Which is it, dude?

Like union people?
Union bosses are not powerless. Unions members under them are. I hate union bosses. They steal from their members and provide very little to nothing. They are thieves.

Like immigrants?

Legal immigrants are not hated. Illegal immigrants have broken the law and need to be deported.

And people of other races and cultures?

Again, only you Democrats keep bringing that up at all. Stuff your racism and bigotry.

That's not the problem.

To you, it is. YOU are the one that brought it up.

We have to get past that and organize together, left and right, against the super rich.

Irrational. Bigotry.

They keep us divided

Irrational. Bigotry.

by stoking the fires of division.

You are describing the Democrats again. Bigotry. Racism.

That is how their control works.

The Democrats are not in control.

Without this bitter polarization,

Caused by the Democrats.

we might actually start talking,

There is nothing to say to Democrats. They want to destroy the Constitution and replace it with fascism by oligarchy. There is nothing to compromise with the Democrats on.

start figuring things out.

I already HAVE figured things out. I know what you are, what you want, and what your party wants.

Begin to see things in a new light, see the big picture.

Already do.

Organize against them.

Stuff your bigotry and racism.

And that would be the beginning of the end for them.

No. For you AND for your party.

And really, we are not so different.
Our differences are minor compared to the BS the power-junkies are pushing on us now.

Lie. Bigotry.

And the pressing major problems being ignored, such as climate change.

Define 'climate change'.

We've got to get this, understand it, and spread the word.

Define 'climate change'.

Once we get enough people onboard we will have our prosperous functional powerful nation.

We already do. You don't need to 'fix' it.

And it will be better for everybody. And the world.

It already is. You don't need to 'fix' it. Fascism by oligarchy is not a fix.

And that's something everybody should be able to agree on.

I will fight your goals. I uphold a republic. I will fight your attempt to implement your fascism.

We all just have to step back and see the big picture. We cannot fall victims to propaganda. It's time to wise up.

Already see the big picture.

 

[Into the Night]

Nixon did not possess the absolute power of tweet-shaming.

Twitter is not absolute power, dumbass.

He was at the mercy of the press.

So you are saying that all that Nixon was accused of was manufactured by the press?

Nixon was unable to bypass the media, control the message like Trump can.

Nah. The media destroyed themselves.

 

[Into the Night]

Nixon was guilty of paying off his criminals and obstructing justice. If Ford did not pardon him, he may have wound up in jail.

Nixon was never convicted of anything.

 

[Into the Night]

Nixon accepted a pardon, which is the legal equivalent of pleading no contest, which in turn is basically a guilty plea. Nixon decided not to deny guilt, which in the eyes of the law makes him as guilty as if he was convicted. Actually, anyone who pleads guilty or no contest is technically not convicted, which is not much of a defense.

Nixon accepted no pardon. He was not convicted of anything. He wasn't even impeached.

trump has also plead no contest in the crimes of his foundation.

What crimes?

he will probably be found not guilty by the Senate in the impeachment.

Duh.

Sometimes guilty people get away with their crimes.

What crime?

I can say he is guilty, because of freedom of speech.

Guilty of what?

To sue me for slander, trump would have to prove he was not guilty beyond a point that any reasonable person would believe him to be guilty.

Attempted force of negative proof fallacy.

That is a legal standard he could never make.

So how long has it been since you last murdered someone? Prove it. I will assume you are guilty of murder until you do.

 

[jimmymccready]

Nixon resigned when told the GOP senators would vote for guilty.

 

[Walt]

Nixon accepted no pardon.

Into the Night is wrong. Ford pardoned Nixon, and Nixon accepted that pardon.

 

[PoliTalker]

When Nixon said:

"I am not a crook!"

Nixon was lying.

 

[Into the Night]

Into the Night is wrong. Ford pardoned Nixon, and Nixon accepted that pardon.

There was nothing to pardon. Nixon wasn't impeached.

 

[Into the Night]

When Nixon said:

"I am not a crook!"

Nixon was lying.

Attempted force of proof of negative argument fallacy.