Way to go Obama!

[Damocles]

Devising the scheme, passing the enabling legislation and signing it into law clearly exculpates the GOP from any blame.

After all, the Black guy was in office when Solyndra folded.

Considering the fact that when the stimulus was passed the GOP didn't control congress, in fact were a minority in both houses where the democrats had a super majority, it is safe to say that yeah... The people who passed that rubbish, the guy that stood touting it as a massive success, the people who continued to give those loans and promote the company as exactly what they wanted, yeah... That would be their fault.

That the guy is black is, apparently, important to you. It's the policy that is important to me.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

Considering the fact that when the stimulus was passed the GOP didn't control congress, in fact were a minority in both houses where the democrats had a super majority, it is safe to say that yeah... The people who passed that rubbish, the guy that stood touting it as a massive success, the people who continued to give those loans and promote the company as exactly what they wanted, yeah... That would be their fault. That the guy is black is, apparently, important to you. It's the policy that is important to me.

The Solyndra loan was authorized by a law a GOP-dominated Congress passed and Bush signed.


The fact that Obama is Black is very important to some on the right, isn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005

 

[Bonestorm]

Isn't the fact that it was a risky investment kind of the point of the government making the investment. If it were a sure thing, the company would need money from the government. Private investors would be lining up to fund it.

Let me add that I'm not suggesting that nothing improper happened with the Solyndra loan guarantees. I'm just saying that the fact that the loan guarantees were risky isn't by itself evidence of impropriety.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Let me add that I'm not suggesting that nothing improper happened with the Solyndra loan guarantees. I'm just saying that the fact that the loan guarantees were risky isn't by itself evidence of impropriety.

Yes, I understand that the government takes risks, but it is also supposed to do its best to prevent losses to tax payers. Hence it has a due dilligence process. A process that appears to have been rushed. When providing loans it also is SUPPOSED to make sure that taxpayers are first in line for repayment should the company go bankrupt. It is also supposed to charge an interest rate to reflect the risk being taken.

I am not suggesting the risk alone was the reason this was bad, but more so the fact that the admin's own people along with an independent review of the company suggested that it was risky and yet the admin still rushed it through (allegedly).

 

[Bonestorm]

Yes, I understand that the government takes risks, but it is also supposed to do its best to prevent losses to tax payers. Hence it has a due dilligence process. A process that appears to have been rushed. When providing loans it also is SUPPOSED to make sure that taxpayers are first in line for repayment should the company go bankrupt. It is also supposed to charge an interest rate to reflect the risk being taken.

I am not suggesting the risk alone was the reason this was bad, but more so the fact that the admin's own people along with an independent review of the company suggested that it was risky and yet the admin still rushed it through (allegedly).

Well, what you said was that the DOE and independent analysts showed that it was a risky investment and Obama threw money at it anyway. Of course it's risky. The trouble here seems to be that the Obama Administration rushed the approval process, not that the loan guarantees carried risk.

And, just a point of clarification, the DOE had already approved the loan when the Administration apparently pressured the OMB to finalize the deal.

 

[Rune]

A business model cannot predict competition? Total fiction. That Chinese company didn't tool up after Solyndra was created. Obama had two full years with total control over both houses, the White House, and no effort was made to instill tariffs and at the same time China's "most favored" status was renewed, not changed by adding tariffs. It was Obama's policy not to instill tariffs... Yet you attempt to blame that on some other fictional nonsense such as "They couldn't have foreseen that a company that existed when they started could possibly make stuff it was already making!"? What?

A 42% drop in wholesale price is hardy predictable.

 

[Rune]

So your position is: Obama was given exactly what he asked for, spent it exactly like he wanted, had control over both houses of congress, the capability and the reality of a signed blank check, and the only thing he did wrong was he didn't quite raise that debt enough or spend more than he asked for (although he did, QE1 and QE2)? That everything worked perfectly except Obama just didn't raise that debt level enough?

I think you should run on that. I think every Democrat should run on that. Make it the central piece of your argument.

No, my position was represented by the words I used, not the ones you used.

The amount of money alloted for the stimulus may have been enough, if it had all been spent that year, not doled out over four long years.

The rest of the crap you tried to atribute to me is your own crap.

 

[Rune]

Yes, I understand that the government takes risks, but it is also supposed to do its best to prevent losses to tax payers. Hence it has a due dilligence process. A process that appears to have been rushed. When providing loans it also is SUPPOSED to make sure that taxpayers are first in line for repayment should the company go bankrupt. It is also supposed to charge an interest rate to reflect the risk being taken.

I am not suggesting the risk alone was the reason this was bad, but more so the fact that the admin's own people along with an independent review of the company suggested that it was risky and yet the admin still rushed it through (allegedly).

At least you threw allegedly in there.

 

[Guns Guns Guns]

The Energy Department’s loan-guarantee program, enacted in 2005 with bipartisan support, has backed nearly $38 billion in loans for 40 projects around the country.


Solyndra represents just 1.3 percent of that portfolio — and, as yet, it’s the only loan that has soured. Other solar beneficiaries, such as SunPower and First Solar, are still going strong.


Meanwhile, just a small fraction of loan guarantees go toward solar.


The program’s biggest bet to date is an $8.33 billion loan guarantee for a nuclear plant down in Georgia.




The Chinese Development Bank offers cheap long-term loans to domestic manufacturers that dwarf anything Solyndra ever got.


That allows Chinese solar companies to offer cutthroat prices and drive competitors out, and yet, as Westinghouse Solar CEO Barry Cinnamon explains, it wasn’t China that caused Solyndra to go belly-up.


The company had invented a solar panel that didn’t use silicon, unlike its competitors, and foundered after silicon prices plummeted.










http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ndra-collapse/2011/09/14/gIQAfkyvRK_blog.html

 

[Damocles]

A 42% drop in wholesale price is hardy predictable.

Right. Amazingly the Bush Admin refused this company's loans... Yet they still got them. What is predictable is when a Chinese company is making your product you may have problems competing with the cost of business so much lower in China and a "most favored" status keeping Tariffs from being applied. Was the Bush Admin psychic, or was this a stupid loan based on what Obama wanted?

 

[Rune]

The DOE and independent analysis of Solyndra showed the company was a RISKY investment... yet Obama threw money at it anyway.... because his billionaire oil tycoon donor buddy wanted him to... and you know Obama can't say no to his billionaire friends.

He didn't do it because of his billionare friend, hackmaster, he did it because he ran on a promise to create green jobs, and because solar-generated electricity is the only real hope the world has.

Even though Solyndra failed, Obama's intentions were earnest.

 

[Damocles]

No, my position was represented by the words I used, not the ones you used.

The amount of money alloted for the stimulus may have been enough, if it had all been spent that year, not doled out over four long years.

The rest of the crap you tried to atribute to me is your own crap.

The rest is what actually happened. It is applying reality to your "opinion", which is apparently based in something other than the reality. You will note the following question mark... in the statement where you infer I was attributing something to you. Hard to attribute anything in a question referring to reality and asking how your opinion fit within it...

 

[Rune]

Right. Amazingly the Bush Admin refused this company's loans... Yet they still got them. What is predictable is when a Chinese company is making your product you may have problems competing with the cost of business so much lower in China and a "most favored" status keeping Tariffs from being applied. Was the Bush Admin psychic, or was this a stupid loan based on what Obama wanted?

Are you trying to say Bush/Cheney refused to fund Solyndra out of executive excellence?

Bush/Cheney were opposed to ALL MANNER of non-fossil fuels.

Don't be a hack.

 

[Damocles]

He didn't do it because of his billionare friend, hackmaster, he did it because he ran on a promise to create green jobs, and because solar-generated electricity is the only real hope the world has.

Even though Solyndra failed, Obama's intentions were earnest.

If I owned a company working in anything green I would ask Obama to stay away. Pretty much every company he stops at to talk up on how great they are fails. It's basically writing the campaign ads for the republicans at this point.

If Obama had been smart enough to use a bridge until the technology met the reality, he wouldn't be tanking right now, he'd have an established infrastructure project, and we'd be working exchanging foreign energy for local... But he's an ideologue rather than a leader and we stand here holding debt with no return.

 

[Rune]

That everything worked perfectly except Obama just didn't raise that debt level enough?

Didn't say it worked perfectly.

Said it worked but not well.

Did say it would have worked better if the money had been doled out sooner.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

He didn't do it because of his billionare friend, hackmaster, he did it because he ran on a promise to create green jobs, and because solar-generated electricity is the only real hope the world has.

Even though Solyndra failed, Obama's intentions were earnest.

1) solar is not the only hope

2) There are hundreds of solar companies out there..... he just HAPPENED to pick the one that his billionaire friend had $75 million invested in.... right?

To be clear, I don't doubt Obama's intentions with regards to making solar work were anything but earnest. It just goes to show he is an idiot when it comes to what it takes to make a business viable.

 

[Bonestorm]

Right. Amazingly the Bush Admin refused this company's loans... Yet they still got them. What is predictable is when a Chinese company is making your product you may have problems competing with the cost of business so much lower in China and a "most favored" status keeping Tariffs from being applied. Was the Bush Admin psychic, or was this a stupid loan based on what Obama wanted?

The Bush Administration didn't refuse the loans. If it had, there would have been no loan application for the Obama Administration to approve. What the more careful right-wing commentators are saying is that the Bush Administration "denied approval," which is different from denying the loan guarantee.

 

[Rune]

If I owned a company working in anything green I would ask Obama to stay away. Pretty much every company he stops at to talk up on how great they are fails. It's basically writing the campaign ads for the republicans at this point.

If Obama had been smart enough to use a bridge until the technology met the reality, he wouldn't be tanking right now, he'd have an established infrastructure project, and we'd be working exchanging foreign energy for local... But he's an ideologue rather than a leader and we stand here holding debt with no return.

Are you honestly trying to represent that a transition usualy occurs smoothly and quickly, and that if it weren't for Obama's mistakes, no false starts would ever occur?

You are scraping here.

 

[Damocles]

The Bush Administration didn't refuse the loans. If it had, there would have been no loan application for the Obama Administration to approve. What the more careful right-wing commentators are saying is that the Bush Administration "denied approval," which is different from denying the loan guarantee.

Sorry, they recommended that the loans not be given, however a later Administration overrode them. I must be precise with you, because you will attempt to pick nits.

 

[Damocles]

Are you honestly trying to represent that a transition usualy occurs smoothly and quickly, and that if it weren't for Obama's mistakes, no false starts would ever occur?

You are scraping here.

No, I am telling you the truth. It isn't a "couple" dude, it is company after company where he chose to highlight their awesomeness.. If I owned a green company I would be terrified if Obama decided to drop by for a speech. He's the anti-Midas.