Ways That Socialsm Can Be Better Than Capitalism

[PoliTalker]

Good morning Phantasmal,

I think America has proven a mix of capitalism and socialism is a good thing.

Most successful nations have!

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Why do we have to adhere to the strictest definition of socialism?

Simply because what you call socialism is not socialism. We may have socialistic like programs but they are fueled by capitalism, thus they are not socialism.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Now, before you get all triggered and go off about how capitalism is always better than socialism, just hear me out.

Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity and there is no way we want to abandon capitalism.

And the old BS about how socialism is a creeping weed that will completely displace capitalism over time is just, well, BS. We've had both for a long time, and that has not happened.

So now that we understand the best economic system is really a mixture of both, let us talk about some of the ways where socialism can be better than capitalism.

I am going to give you two examples of ways you might be getting ripped off by capitalism. There are myriads of ways, but here are two that come to mind.

Charcoal starter fluid and tire wet.

Have you ever purchased either of these two products?

No big deal. Like many of us, you may have bought one or both of these products and used them for the intended purpose. No big deal, right? That's what they are for, right?

Well, they do a good job at what they say they do, but ya got ripped off.

What?

How do I know that?

Well, I hate to spoil the 'ingenuity of capitalism' for ya, but the only ingenuity in both of these products is packaging and taking advantage of an unsuspecting public.

Both of these products are not products at all. They are simply common substances repackaged to appear to be something new, formulated for a specific purpose.

Here's what you are getting when you buy these products:

Charcoal starter is really mineral spirits. If you paid $4 - $7 for a quart of charcoal starter, you could have paid about $7 - $9 and gotten a gallon of mineral spirits and done the same thing. There's more going up in smoke than the charcoal starter. Your money.

How about 'tire wet?' That's really mineral oil. If you spent $7 - $12 or $16 for a bottle of 'tire wet,' you got ripped off. Once again, a greedy corporation took advantage of the fact that you probably didn't know the 'product' is really a common substance that you could have paid far less for.

That's because part of the 'ingenuity of capitalism' is to find a way to exploit an unsuspecting public by getting them to pay more for something than they really have to.

A socialist government department of consumer awareness could alert the public of these and similar scams to keep the worst of capitalism from taking advantage of good people who worked hard for their money.

I'm all for competition and coming up with ingenious new inventions and useful products. Socialism isn't going to do that. What it can do is protect us from shysters and legal 'scams.'

Let's embrace socialism, and stop getting ripped off! This will force capitalism to be at it's true best. Doing what is really beneficial to society, instead of simply (and lazily) looking for easy money, ways to rip people off, and generally just trying extract as many dollars out of the general public as possible, whether true value is delivered or not, to be gathered together for the richest previous holders of vast wealth.

The last thing we really want is a society where wealth inequality grows ever more extreme. But that's what we've got. And that big money doesn't want you to know how you're getting ripped off.

The true measure of a country is not how wealthy the richest are, but how well that country treats the least advantaged members of society.

The richer the richest get, the more taxes they need to be paying to support the least advantaged. And that is just pure logic.

We don't have to abandon capitalism to get smart and stop wasting money.

Remember: Benjamin Franklin was right. A penny saved is a penny earned.

The only difference is these days it is a dollar. LOTS of them.

Capitalism will use all it's power to try to get your money out of your hands. It's time we use all OUR collective power to keep the greedy side of capitalism at bay. We need use socialism to force capitalism to stay focused on creating useful new products and ways to do things that truly help people.

That's a win/win for America.

Because making America greater doesn't always mean making the rich richer.

We all need to consider how socialism can help capitalism provide better healthcare, too.

That's one of the biggest ways we are getting ripped off.

there's laws that products list their ingredients. you can't pass a law against stupidity, or marketing.

you're an idiot.

not allowing large corporations to capture governments is a better way to deal with systematic oppression.

fascism really is the problem, but most people don't understand the word.

 

[PoliTalker]

Good morning Cypress,

Love the cartoon.

Awesome.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Phantasmal,

Why do we have to adhere to the strictest definition of socialism?

We don't.

China, who is beating us economically (really because they are just so large and have so many resources,) doesn't have all the BS about 'socialism bad.'

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Cypress,

But you have been around enough to know that the Republican claim was that Obama was a Marxist Socialist.

Obama was only trying to make USA a little bit more like Denmark in terms of social welfare.

Since Republicans claim that any attempt to make ourselves a little tiny bit more like Denmark is socialism, then that is the standard we can legitimately use.


Sidebar- as Phan pointed out, the principles of socialism have been employed in a variety of ways, just like the principles of capitalism have.

The 'That's not socialism' argument is mixed-up conservatives trying to have it both ways.

It's really every bit as absurd as your cartoon depicts.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Hello Phantasmal,



We don't.

China, who is beating us economically (really because they are just so large and have so many resources,) doesn't have all the BS about 'socialism bad.'

they use slave labor of political prisoners.

china is pure fascism with no civil rights. it's a boot stomping on a human face forever.

 

[PoliTalker]

Capitalism:

Mineral oil and mineral spirits repackaged to make you pay more for the same simple thing.

Conservatives' idea of capitalism is ripping off the unsuspecting to make the rich richer by extracting as much hard-earned wealth as possible from those who can least afford to give it up.

That doesn't make America great.

 

[PoliTalker]

Next time you're detailing your car out, and you want to pretty up the tires, if you don't have any 'tire wet,' but you do happen to have some (lower priced) mineral oil, just slather some of that on there.

It's The Same Thing.

Save yourself and the environment a trip to the store.

Let's stop getting screwed by the dirty side of capitalism.

 

[PoliTalker]

Oh, another dirty little capitalist secret.

Do you like burning oil lamps?

But you don't like the soot of kerosene?

Who does?

So nasty. So dirty.

You might be tempted to buy a product called 'Liquid Paraffin.'

Don't bother.

The same big box store will have the same exact substance in different packaging in another area of the store, and it will be priced lower.

Mineral oil, again.

Same thing.

Stop paying more for things just because it has fancy packaging.

Knowledge is power.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

But you have been around enough to know that the Republican claim was that Obama was a Marxist Socialist.

Obama was only trying to make USA a little bit more like Denmark in terms of social welfare.

Since Republicans claim that any attempt to make ourselves a little tiny bit more like Denmark is socialism, then that is the standard we can legitimately use.


Sidebar- as Phan pointed out, the principles of socialism have been employed in a variety of ways, just like the principles of capitalism have.

Nice try but,

Democratic Socialists have presented Denmark as the elusive nation where socialism has been successful, and thus a model for the policies they would implement in the United States. Bernie Sanders regularly invoked Denmark during the 2016 presidential campaign, and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez reassured 60 Minutes viewers that her version of democratic socialism would veer more toward Denmark than Venezuela. Just weeks ago a free-market think tank in Denmark, the Center for Political Studies (CEPOS), issued a 20-page report telling Americans that 1) Denmark is not a socialist nation; and 2) statist policies have still caused significant economic harm.

Denmark is not socialist

The 20-page report notes that, by some measures, Denmark and the Nordic “socialist” countries have more economic freedom than the United States:
https://blog.acton.org/archives/105...JrbVn-2qXX9igUQwWhJzalEGDW2ODuw0aAmdgEALw_wcB

You lefties always leave out the capitalist part of their economies.

BTW
There are only three true socialist countries: North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. All of which are total disasters.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Now, before you get all triggered and go off about how capitalism is always better than socialism, just hear me out.

Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity and there is no way we want to abandon capitalism.

And the old BS about how socialism is a creeping weed that will completely displace capitalism over time is just, well, BS. We've had both for a long time, and that has not happened.

So now that we understand the best economic system is really a mixture of both, let us talk about some of the ways where socialism can be better than capitalism.

I am going to give you two examples of ways you might be getting ripped off by capitalism. There are myriads of ways, but here are two that come to mind.

Charcoal starter fluid and tire wet.

Have you ever purchased either of these two products?

No big deal. Like many of us, you may have bought one or both of these products and used them for the intended purpose. No big deal, right? That's what they are for, right?

Well, they do a good job at what they say they do, but ya got ripped off.

What?

How do I know that?

Well, I hate to spoil the 'ingenuity of capitalism' for ya, but the only ingenuity in both of these products is packaging and taking advantage of an unsuspecting public.

Both of these products are not products at all. They are simply common substances repackaged to appear to be something new, formulated for a specific purpose.

Here's what you are getting when you buy these products:

Charcoal starter is really mineral spirits. If you paid $4 - $7 for a quart of charcoal starter, you could have paid about $7 - $9 and gotten a gallon of mineral spirits and done the same thing. There's more going up in smoke than the charcoal starter. Your money.

How about 'tire wet?' That's really mineral oil. If you spent $7 - $12 or $16 for a bottle of 'tire wet,' you got ripped off. Once again, a greedy corporation took advantage of the fact that you probably didn't know the 'product' is really a common substance that you could have paid far less for.

That's because part of the 'ingenuity of capitalism' is to find a way to exploit an unsuspecting public by getting them to pay more for something than they really have to.

A socialist government department of consumer awareness could alert the public of these and similar scams to keep the worst of capitalism from taking advantage of good people who worked hard for their money.

I'm all for competition and coming up with ingenious new inventions and useful products. Socialism isn't going to do that. What it can do is protect us from shysters and legal 'scams.'

Let's embrace socialism, and stop getting ripped off! This will force capitalism to be at it's true best. Doing what is really beneficial to society, instead of simply (and lazily) looking for easy money, ways to rip people off, and generally just trying extract as many dollars out of the general public as possible, whether true value is delivered or not, to be gathered together for the richest previous holders of vast wealth.

The last thing we really want is a society where wealth inequality grows ever more extreme. But that's what we've got. And that big money doesn't want you to know how you're getting ripped off.

The true measure of a country is not how wealthy the richest are, but how well that country treats the least advantaged members of society.

The richer the richest get, the more taxes they need to be paying to support the least advantaged. And that is just pure logic.

We don't have to abandon capitalism to get smart and stop wasting money.

Remember: Benjamin Franklin was right. A penny saved is a penny earned.

The only difference is these days it is a dollar. LOTS of them.

Capitalism will use all it's power to try to get your money out of your hands. It's time we use all OUR collective power to keep the greedy side of capitalism at bay. We need use socialism to force capitalism to stay focused on creating useful new products and ways to do things that truly help people.

That's a win/win for America.

Because making America greater doesn't always mean making the rich richer.

We all need to consider how socialism can help capitalism provide better healthcare, too.

That's one of the biggest ways we are getting ripped off.

You confused Marketing with Capitalism. Even in a Socialist society Marketing exists.

Here's an example from Venezuela. The box contains a variable amount (based on what the government can get) of crappy basic food products. The box is printed with pictures of "heroes" on it and has things like government propaganda about how great things are. Nothing new there, it's just Marketing. Sure, there are differences in how things are marketed in a Capitalist and Socialist society, but Marketing exists in both.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello T. A. Gardner,

You confused Marketing with Capitalism. Even in a Socialist society Marketing exists.

Here's an example from Venezuela. The box contains a variable amount (based on what the government can get) of crappy basic food products. The box is printed with pictures of "heroes" on it and has things like government propaganda about how great things are. Nothing new there, it's just Marketing. Sure, there are differences in how things are marketed in a Capitalist and Socialist society, but Marketing exists in both.

There is no confusion.

Capitalists will exploit any angle they can find that will help them extract money out of the hands of unsuspecting people who have precious little of it to spare. Marketing is a huge part of capitalism.

My dentist told me to use a certain toothpaste.

I went and got some. After all, it came with a threat that if I don't do everything he says I will lose my teeth. It was the most expensive toothpaste I could buy. It costs easily ten times the lower priced stuff.

Is it really ten times as good?

I looked at the ingredients. At least the ones they chose to put on the label. After all, it's not food, so they are not required to put all the ingredients on the label. (btw, capitalism fought and lost that battle over food.) The ingredients looked remarkably similar. Both products work pretty well. Both products get my teeth very clean and smooth.

Am I really getting my money's worth by buying the one that costs ten times as much?

Or is it really a big marketing campaign I am paying for.

Does the toothpaste manufacturer pay cute representatives, often ex college cheerleaders, to go around and visit each dentist and butter him up with perks to recommend the expensive toothpaste? Does the price include fancy advertising on TV? Is the cost of that high-priced toothpaste really because it is so much better?

Or is it to pay for marketing and hype, and then some, to get people to pay more for it than they really would need to if we had a proper socialist consumer information and awareness agency of the US federal government?

If we had such an agency, it could alert people to when they are getting ripped off.

We created one under Obama, and it was greatly the efforts of Elizabeth Warren that brought it about. It immediately began identifying major ways American consumers were getting ripped off.

The CFPB returned BILLIONS to Americans who had been ripped off.

All of that came to a crashing stop when Trump put a puppet in charge.

The rip-offs returned.

This agency should be revamped and expanded to do so much more for American consumers.

Such as telling people what is in the products they buy.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

You confused Marketing with Capitalism. Even in a Socialist society Marketing exists.

Here's an example from Venezuela. The box contains a variable amount (based on what the government can get) of crappy basic food products. The box is printed with pictures of "heroes" on it and has things like government propaganda about how great things are. Nothing new there, it's just Marketing. Sure, there are differences in how things are marketed in a Capitalist and Socialist society, but Marketing exists in both.

so how would your socialist utopia stop businesses from reselling mineral oil as tire shine?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

There is no confusion.

Yes, there is...

Capitalists will exploit any angle they can find that will help them extract money out of the hands of unsuspecting people who have precious little of it to spare. Marketing is a huge part of capitalism.

So do Socialists. Propaganda keeps them in power.

My dentist told me to use a certain toothpaste.

I went and got some. After all, it came with a threat that if I don't do everything he says I will lose my teeth. It was the most expensive toothpaste I could buy. It costs easily ten times the lower priced stuff.

Is it really ten times as good?

I looked at the ingredients. At least the ones they chose to put on the label. After all, it's not food, so they are not required to put all the ingredients on the label. (btw, capitalism fought and lost that battle over food.) The ingredients looked remarkably similar. Both products work pretty well. Both products get my teeth very clean and smooth.

Am I really getting my money's worth by buying the one that costs ten times as much?

Or is it really a big marketing campaign I am paying for.

Does the toothpaste manufacturer pay cute representatives, often ex college cheerleaders, to go around and visit each dentist and butter him up with perks to recommend the expensive toothpaste? Does the price include fancy advertising on TV? Is the cost of that high-priced toothpaste really because it is so much better?

Or is it to pay for marketing and hype, and then some, to get people to pay more for it than they really would need to if we had a proper socialist consumer information and awareness agency of the US federal government?

If we had such an agency, it could alert people to when they are getting ripped off.

Or, the government would rip you off instead. All of the above can and does happen in a Socialist society. The government can lie to you with impunity. At least in a Capitalist society today, there are watchdogs both in government and society that call out false advertising by private companies. With the government there is none. The government can even imprison those that question what they say. That happens all the time in Socialist societies.
For example, in France a lot of bad news goes unreported simply because the government wants it unreported.

We created one under Obama, and it was greatly the efforts of Elizabeth Warren that brought it about. It immediately began identifying major ways American consumers were getting ripped off.

The CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission) cuts both ways. They often shove an excess of safety down our throats because they can.

The CFPB returned BILLIONS to Americans who had been ripped off.

Same thing. They may be a boon to some, to others they're just another bureaucracy getting in the way.

All of that came to a crashing stop when Trump put a puppet in charge.

The rip-offs returned.

This agency should be revamped and expanded to do so much more for American consumers.

Such as telling people what is in the products they buy.

The only difference between a Capitalist society and a Socialist society is who's doing the ripping off. In the former it's private companies and individuals subject to getting caught and prosecuted by government. In the latter it's government who isn't beholden to anyone and isn't libel for anything they do. A perfect example of this in action is the Gold King mine disaster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gold_King_Mine_waste_water_spill

If a private corporation did that, they'd be held libel for billions in clean up and restitution. But because it was the EPA running the show they washed their hands of all liability and told those harmed by their actions, "Too bad. We're the government and we're not libel for anything we do..."

 

[T. A. Gardner]

so how would your socialist utopia stop businesses from reselling mineral oil as tire shine?

The second you get caught it's off to the gulag for you. The government hates competition...

 

[Yakuda]

Now, before you get all triggered and go off about how capitalism is always better than socialism, just hear me out.

Capitalism is a wonderful engine of ingenuity and there is no way we want to abandon capitalism.

And the old BS about how socialism is a creeping weed that will completely displace capitalism over time is just, well, BS. We've had both for a long time, and that has not happened.

So now that we understand the best economic system is really a mixture of both, let us talk about some of the ways where socialism can be better than capitalism.

I am going to give you two examples of ways you might be getting ripped off by capitalism. There are myriads of ways, but here are two that come to mind.

Charcoal starter fluid and tire wet.

Have you ever purchased either of these two products?

No big deal. Like many of us, you may have bought one or both of these products and used them for the intended purpose. No big deal, right? That's what they are for, right?

Well, they do a good job at what they say they do, but ya got ripped off.

What?

How do I know that?

Well, I hate to spoil the 'ingenuity of capitalism' for ya, but the only ingenuity in both of these products is packaging and taking advantage of an unsuspecting public.

Both of these products are not products at all. They are simply common substances repackaged to appear to be something new, formulated for a specific purpose.

Here's what you are getting when you buy these products:

Charcoal starter is really mineral spirits. If you paid $4 - $7 for a quart of charcoal starter, you could have paid about $7 - $9 and gotten a gallon of mineral spirits and done the same thing. There's more going up in smoke than the charcoal starter. Your money.

How about 'tire wet?' That's really mineral oil. If you spent $7 - $12 or $16 for a bottle of 'tire wet,' you got ripped off. Once again, a greedy corporation took advantage of the fact that you probably didn't know the 'product' is really a common substance that you could have paid far less for.

That's because part of the 'ingenuity of capitalism' is to find a way to exploit an unsuspecting public by getting them to pay more for something than they really have to.

A socialist government department of consumer awareness could alert the public of these and similar scams to keep the worst of capitalism from taking advantage of good people who worked hard for their money.

I'm all for competition and coming up with ingenious new inventions and useful products. Socialism isn't going to do that. What it can do is protect us from shysters and legal 'scams.'

Let's embrace socialism, and stop getting ripped off! This will force capitalism to be at it's true best. Doing what is really beneficial to society, instead of simply (and lazily) looking for easy money, ways to rip people off, and generally just trying extract as many dollars out of the general public as possible, whether true value is delivered or not, to be gathered together for the richest previous holders of vast wealth.

The last thing we really want is a society where wealth inequality grows ever more extreme. But that's what we've got. And that big money doesn't want you to know how you're getting ripped off.

The true measure of a country is not how wealthy the richest are, but how well that country treats the least advantaged members of society.

The richer the richest get, the more taxes they need to be paying to support the least advantaged. And that is just pure logic.

We don't have to abandon capitalism to get smart and stop wasting money.

Remember: Benjamin Franklin was right. A penny saved is a penny earned.

The only difference is these days it is a dollar. LOTS of them.

Capitalism will use all it's power to try to get your money out of your hands. It's time we use all OUR collective power to keep the greedy side of capitalism at bay. We need use socialism to force capitalism to stay focused on creating useful new products and ways to do things that truly help people.

That's a win/win for America.

Because making America greater doesn't always mean making the rich richer.

We all need to consider how socialism can help capitalism provide better healthcare, too.

That's one of the biggest ways we are getting ripped off.

You realize socialism is immoral right? With capitalism one is required to but anything. It requires voluntary participation between 2 socialism does not. That alone make a it the most horrible system ever devised. You are intent on creating class warfare. That's about as Marxist as you can get. You have no sense whatsoever.

 

[Yakuda]

My favorite short list of American socialism are:

Public libraries
NASA-space program
Public universities
Medicare
Green Bay Packers

Libraries need not be run by govt money.
Space X is a huge fuck you to NASA
Public universities are indoctrination centers
If I could have kept every dollar stolen from,me for entitlement programs and invested it myself I'd have retired 10 years ago.
If that's true about the packers then McDonald's is socialism.

What morons you people are.

 

[Cypress]

Nice try but,

Democratic Socialists have presented Denmark as the elusive nation where socialism has been successful, and thus a model for the policies they would implement in the United States. Bernie Sanders regularly invoked Denmark during the 2016 presidential campaign, and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez reassured 60 Minutes viewers that her version of democratic socialism would veer more toward Denmark than Venezuela. Just weeks ago a free-market think tank in Denmark, the Center for Political Studies (CEPOS), issued a 20-page report telling Americans that 1) Denmark is not a socialist nation; and 2) statist policies have still caused significant economic harm.

Denmark is not socialist

The 20-page report notes that, by some measures, Denmark and the Nordic “socialist” countries have more economic freedom than the United States:
https://blog.acton.org/archives/105...JrbVn-2qXX9igUQwWhJzalEGDW2ODuw0aAmdgEALw_wcB

You lefties always leave out the capitalist part of their economies.

BTW
There are only three true socialist countries: North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. All of which are total disasters.

Explain why Republican politicians and conservative message boarders have spent years saying Europe is socialist.

What countries were they talking about, if Denmark is supposedly not included as socialist?

Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"
Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a

Prominent Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"
Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president

"I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813

Bill O'Reilly noted rightwing blowhard: Western Europe is basically socialist
"I received a letter from Rhonda Hallett who lives in Jacksonville, North Carolina asking me to define Bernie's doctrine of Democratic socialism. Ok. That's basically what some countries in western Europe have, a political system that limits personal income through taxation in return for cradle to grave payouts from the governments. That's the trade."
http://nation.foxnews.com/2016/02/14...atic-socialism

Mike Pence is on record referring to western Europe as "socialist".
when Representative Mike Pence, Republican of Indiana, denounced “European-style socialism,” in his speech at the conference on Thursday, the jeers from the crowd did not exactly signal an openness to debate it on the merits.
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/w...leibovich.html

European socialism taking root in US, Fox News's Stuart Varney says
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...us-varney-says

Rudy Giuliani Claims Europe is Socialist
In a preview of his Republican National Convention speech, Rudy Giuliani insisted that the United States does not “have to be a socialist country like Europe.”
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/08/ru...ve-to-be-a-socialist-country-like-europe/amp/

 

[Yakuda]

Explain why Republican politicians and conservative message boarders have spent years saying Europe is socialist.

What countries were they talking about, if Denmark is supposedly not included as socialist?

In 2915 Danish prime minister Lars Rasmussen said, "Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy". Fucking get it idiot. It doesn't matter what the fuck any of those people claim.

The difference is that EVERYFUCKINGBODY in Sweden and Denmark pays taxes. More than half the people in the US don't pay federal taxes. In Sweden and Denmark they have a consumption tax. You fucking morons would never go for that so shut the fuck up.