SmarterthanYou
rebel
write a short fantasy story about that........would be great to read
What happens if an enemy gets on America's soil and attack?
- Thread starter AProudLefty
- Start date
write a short fantasy story about that........would be great to read
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
SmarterthanYou
rebel
and look where it stands now.............
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
al-Qaeda is toast. Afghanistan is a basket case sitting atop a fortune of natural resources.
Nation building doesn't work. We can assist, but as proved in both Iraq and Afghanistan, the population has to climb the ladder of civilization themselves.
Into the Night
Verified User
A billion Chinese? Sure, but it's a loooong fucking swim both to get here and to swim back.
We'd fight. Would Americans die? Yes, but we'd still fight. Like Ukraine, I expect 80% of the population to run, but the remaining 20% would fight.
To attack a position, it usually takes a 3 to 1 advantage, meaning it'd take at least 3000 invaders to take one 1000 man defending position. Then there's both the advantage of home turf and guerrilla warfare.
It wasn't done by the Saudi government so I disagree it was an act of war by Saudi Arabia on America. If it was, we'd kick their ass too. I've trained their pilots. It's a backward culture.
No wonder they can't fly. You trained them. You don't know how to fly yourself!
The Posse Comitatus Act only applies to domestic law enforcement. Fighting a war is not law enforcement. So if Russia invades Canada, American forces enter Canada to fight a war with Russia, and they then retreat into the USA, nothing changes at the US border. They continue to fight the war.
During 9/11, the US Air Force flew planes threatening US civilian air planes. Only through good luck, they did not shoot down any planes. As long as they did this as part of a war, that is legally OK. That even applies if there is not enough time to declare war, and if the war is never declared.
A more interest question is do they have the right to act if it is a domestic force. For instance, on January 6th, could the government have used non-National Guard soldiers to defend The Capitol Building? Maybe.
Truck Fump / h1b
Verified User
you just can't wait for martial law, can you, nazi?
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
It wasn't "luck".
I think part of Trump's plan was to declare martial law to "restore order" then never plan on letting it up. He'd use the militias as his praetorian guard.
Sadly for Pedo Don, the US military leadership politely told him to go fuck himself.
Remember when Trump tried to give orders to the military via Twitter? Response? "We don't take orders by Twitter". LOL
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying the trials of America's traitors and terrorists.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/10/31/graydon-young-oath-keeper-apology-00064287
‘Sorry for what I did’: Oath Keeper who pleaded guilty for Jan. 6 breach breaks down on the stand
Graydon Young of Florida choked back sobs as he testified against his former allies in their seditious conspiracy trial.
Truck Fump / h1b
Verified User
It wasn't "luck".
I think part of Trump's plan was to declare martial law to "restore order" then never plan on letting it up. He'd use the militias as his praetorian guard.
Sadly for Pedo Don, the US military leadership politely told him to go fuck himself.
Remeber when Trump tried to give orders to the military via Twitter? Response? "We don't take orders by Twitter". LOL
the flaw in your theory is that it didn't happen, idiot.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
What always amazes me is how big and tough the alt right is when insulting, and then they turn into little girls when insulted.
It wasn't "luck".
Well kind of. The Air Force was ready to shoot down planes only after the last terrorist plane was down. Even shooting down a terrorist controlled plane would have killed a bunch of Americans. Shooting down a non-hijacked plane would have killed a bunch of Americans for no reason.
And the Air Force nearly shot down a bunch of civilian planes that were not responding exactly correctly in the confusion of 9/11. It is lucky that none were shot down.
trump wanted to create the "chaos", and then "restore order" by removing our freedom.
Bush did not give the order to shutdown the air traffic control system. He went into hiding on 9/11, and did not want to take command. So lower ranked people had to risk their careers and even their freedom from prison to shutdown the air traffic control system, and to threaten American civilian planes with the Air Force.
But it was a legitimate call. They were not creating the chaos that the were then "restoring order" from. They did the least, solely military mission that was reasonable.
Thank God they did, but we cannot always count on them to do that.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Our military operates by ROE - Rules of Engagement. No pilot I ever met was eager to shoot down a civilian airliner. The fucking Russians are less discriminating.
Agreed on the coup plan.
Bush's Looking Glass aircraft was in command. The problem was deciding what to do. Like Katrina...and Uvalde, that was more about political appointees in positions for which they are not qualified instead of the best people for the job.
To be clear; the Air Traffic Control system wasn't shut down. It was up and running. What was shut down were all non-essential air traffic.
What is your solution should a president call the military to side with him in a coup?
No one was eager too... But given that there had just been 3 major attacks on the USA by civilian aircraft, and we were trying to shutdown an air traffic control system with hundreds of thousands of planes in it for the first time, there was a real chance a civilian plane was going to get shot down.
Who ordered the shutdown of all air traffic. We may never know, but we do know it was not Bush. The Bush White House went dark, and stopped responding. Some civil servant made a huge choice, because the political class did not do their job.
It was shutdown to all civilian aircraft. All civilian aircraft had to land as quickly as safely possible. Civilian aircraft that did not land immediately found themselves being tailed by military aircraft with orders to shoot them down if they did not land.
One of the jobs of a leader is to take the blame for things going wrong. This takes some of the pressure off his underlings, and allows things to go better. Bush was unwilling to take responsibility for shutting down civilian air flight in the USA. Giuliani was unwilling to take responsibility for evacuating the command center in the WTC.
Both decisions had to be made, but the leaders refused to take responsibility. Therefore civil servants had to secretly make the decisions.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
I don't do text walls. Yes, there was confusion about what to do. Shutting down the air transport system was a major economic decision. It was supported by the military but all those who would lose money were against it. As it was, it was shut down for about 3 days IIRC. That's how long I was trapped out of country before catching a flight back in.
The fact no American airliners or other aircraft were shot down indicates your excitement over the event is excessive. Results count, not conjecture.
I'm still waiting for your solution to the question of a president in the future using the military to take over the nation.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
I think everyone was more or less onboard with the shutdown. There was a lot of shouting about shooting down planes, which was understandable under the circumstances. It certainly came close.
In any military situation, there is a danger of friendly fire. I think you discount that danger at your own peril.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Again, what is the solution? You forget that on 9/11, I was both a recently retired career Naval Aviator and current airline pilot. Do you think I wanted to get my ass shot out of the sky by my own team?
There are rules and procedures. Consider how many idiots have broken the P-56 airspace in DC post-9/11. How many have been shot down? ZERO. Results count, not fantasies about what could be.
https://www.thinkaviation.net/prohibited-areas/
There were over a hundred planes forced to land at military bases under threat of immediately shoot down. I AGREE WITH THAT DECISION!!!. We were under attack, and extreme measures needed to be taken.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
It was a big mess. There'd been warnings for year, but both the Clinton and Bush administrations blew it off. Another part of the problem was the lack of data sharing between various agencies.
My circle of military officers fully expected a major terrorist attack on the US mainland. The air attack was both audacious and surprising, but the fact the Islamic terrorists hit us on our home turf was expected.
A common thought was that it'd be a "loose nuke" or dirty bomb. They wouldn't even have to clear customs; just set it off in a major harbor or in an aircraft transiting the US from South America to Canada along the Eastern seaboard.
https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/GPO-911REPORT/context