What is socialism?

Robo

Robo

Verified User
What is socialism?




Well, dictionary.com says,




socialism

. [soh-shuh-liz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for socialism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.




Well then that means that a “democratic government” being the representation of the “community,” or even a “dictatorship government” claiming to be the representative of the community as a whole is actually a “socialist” operation. In short, socialism by definition is “government” and government by definition is “socialism.”




Government “owns” the “means”, makes the laws, that “control” the “means” of “production” and “distribution.” Break the government’s laws regarding the means of production and you’ll very soon find out who “OWNS” the means of production, right? Examples: Pot, gambling, business and corporation regulations, “HEALTHCARE.”






OK, now that we’ve proven what socialism is, where does capitalism fit in? Well let’s see what the dictionary says “capitalism” is.




capitalism

. [kap-i-tl-iz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for capitalism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

OK then “capitalism” is actually businesses and investments who & where have by law the majority of control over the means of production and distribution as opposed to the government’s control over such.




I find it a hard press to find anyplace on the globe that Actually has such a system that can honestly be called “capitalism.” True capitalism is a myth. The majority control/ownership of, and distribution of anything and everything, everywhere is determined by the amount of freedom to own and distribute everything and anything by a socialist government.




So, capitalism in short is only determined by degree. How capitalist is your country? How much freedom, (what degree), of freedom does your government allow you and your neighbors and the leaders of industry to own and distribute what you/they produce without government interference? How socialist is the healthcare you’re getting? How much freedom of choice do you have? If your government mandates a single payer healthcare system how much freedom of choice will you have? How “SOCIALIST “ will you admit your healthcare is?
 
Robo:
"Government is force by definition and corruption by nature. The bigger the government, the greater the force and the greater the corruption."
Click to expand...

America is the definition of big government and it's the most capitalist of all the world's capitalist countries. Be careful about starting a discussion in which the people will start thinking!

Do you know of any socialist countries to compare with the US? Any of those country's leaders to compare to America's president?
 
montgomery said:
Robo:

America is the definition of big government and it's the most capitalist of all the world's capitalist countries. Be careful about starting a discussion in which the people will start thinking!

Do you know of any socialist countries to compare with the US? Any of those country's leaders to compare to America's president?
Click to expand...

What causes you to believe I'd defend the United States government as anything else except over bloated and corrupt? Government is socialist force by definition and not just corrupt by its very nature it's also socialist thugery. Our founders understood that and that's why they gave us our Constitution, that our government has violated, bastardized and trashed even before the ink was dry. What's left of it is our only saving grace, FOR NOW!
 
Socialism is a name, not a system. Nobody has it and nobody has capitalism. Every government is an amalgamation of whatever the leaders and people decide. In the so-called Socialist countries, they have lots of wealthy people. The poor just do not suffer as much. The wealth gap is not as extreme as ours.We have Social Security, foodsatmps and lots of other socialistic programs. The rich have demonized socialism and use the label for political purposes.
 
Robo said:
What is socialism?




Well, dictionary.com says,




socialism

. [soh-shuh-liz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for socialism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.




Well then that means that a “democratic government” being the representation of the “community,” or even a “dictatorship government” claiming to be the representative of the community as a whole is actually a “socialist” operation. In short, socialism by definition is “government” and government by definition is “socialism.”




Government “owns” the “means”, makes the laws, that “control” the “means” of “production” and “distribution.” Break the government’s laws regarding the means of production and you’ll very soon find out who “OWNS” the means of production, right? Examples: Pot, gambling, business and corporation regulations, “HEALTHCARE.”






OK, now that we’ve proven what socialism is, where does capitalism fit in?
Click to expand...

You've just made the same mistakes I think a lot of people make, you've confused type of government with ideology and bought into the argument being made today that you can be a little bit pregnant by being both "socialist" and capitalist. I understand the point you're trying to make about government control being necessary in order to implement socialism but look at the hoops you had to jump through just to get there: your own definition, the one you went out of your way to supply, doesn't anywhere refer to socialism as a form of government...because it's not. If your argument were that simple to make you would have posted a definition calling socialism a form of government.

The other problem with this is that as far as America is concerned the prominent "socialists" in the news today refer to themselves as Democratic Socialists and that kind of socialism has very little to do with, in fact practically nothing, a strong government. Your definition actually got it right, it's a social system. IOW, for those people owning the government is far less important than owning the schools and the media for a few generations because their type of change doesn't come at the ballot box, it happens gradually.
 
United States
21st Street Co-op, student housing co-operative in Austin, Texas
Ace Hardware, Oak Brook, Illinois
Affiliated Foods Inc.
Affiliated Foods Midwest Co-op Inc.
Affiliated Foods Southwest
AgFirst Farm Credit Bank
Agribank, FCB
Ant Hill Cooperative
Arizmendi Bakery, San Francisco, California
Associated Food Stores
Associated Grocers of Florida, Inc
Associated Grocers of the South, Inc.
Associated Grocers, Inc.
Associated Press
Associated Wholesale Grocers
Associated Wholesalers, Inc.
Audubon Mutual Housing Corporation
Avalon Organic Gardens & EcoVillage
Basin Electric Power Cooperative
Berkeley Student Cooperative
Black Star Co-op A brewpub located in Austin, TX
Blue Diamond Growers
Bob's Red Mill
Brown Association for Cooperative Housing
Cabot Creamery, Vermont-based dairy marketing
Carpet One
CCA Global Partners
Central Grocers Cooperative
Certified Grocers Midwest
Choptank Electric Cooperative
CHS Inc.
CoBank
Co-operative Central Exchange
Cooperative Development Foundation
Dairy Farmers of America
Dairylea Cooperative Inc.
Delta and Providence Cooperative Farms
Diamond Walnut Growers, Inc.
Do It Best
Echo Adventure Cooperative
Equal Exchange
Farm Credit Bank of Texas
First Tech Credit Union
Florida's Natural Growers (formerly Citrus World Inc.)
Florists' Transworld Delivery (FTD)
Fourth Estate
Freedom Farm Cooperative, an agricultural cooperative founded by American civil rights activist Fannie Lou Hamer in 1967
Full Sail Brewing Company
George Street Co-op
Great River Energy
Greenbelt Homes, Inc.[8]
Greenbelt News Review[9]
Group Health Cooperative
GROWMARK, Inc.
Harvard/MIT Cooperative Society
Inter-Cooperative Council at the University of Michigan (Ann Arbor MI)[10]
Land O'Lakes
Madison Community Co-op
MFA Incorporated
Michigan State University Student Housing Cooperative
National Cooperative Bank (now NCB)
National Cooperative Business Association (NCBA)
National Co+op Grocers (NCG)
National Grape Cooperative Association, Inc.
National Rural Utilities Cooperative Finance Corporation[11]
Navy Federal Credit Union
New Deal Cafe[12]
New Mexico Educators Federal Credit Union[13]
Nebraska Rural Radio Association
Northcountry Cooperative Development Fund
Oberlin Student Cooperative Association
Ocean Spray (cooperative)
Oglethorpe Power Corporation
Old Dominion Electric Cooperative
Park Slope Food Coop
Pentagon Federal Credit Union
People's Food Co-op (Portland)
Piggly Wiggly Alabama
Pioneer Telephone Cooperative (Oklahoma)
Pioneer Telephone Cooperative (Oregon)
Princeton Cooperative
R.E.I. (Recreational Equipment Inc.)[14]
Rapidan Camps[15]
Riceland Foods
Scary Cow Productions
Snake River Sugar Company
Southern Maryland Electric Cooperative
Southern States Cooperative
Sunkist Growers, Inc.
Tennessee Farmers Cooperative
The Union Credit Union[16]
Tillamook County Creamery Association
Topco Associates
True Value Corporation
U.S. AgBank, FCB
U.S. Central Credit Union
Unified Western Grocers
USA Federal Credit Union (San Diego, Ca)[17]
United Hardware Distributing Company (Hardware Hank)
Universal Cooperatives
URM Stores
VHA, Inc.
Wakefern Food Corporation
Weaver's Way Co-op
Weaver Street Market
Wedge Community Co-op
Welch's (Welch Foods Inc.)
Western Family Holding Company
Western Sugar Cooperative
WestFarm Foods
Wheatsville Co-op
Whole Foods Co-op
Winfield Park Mutual Housing Corporation
WSIPC
 
Robo said:
What is socialism?




Well, dictionary.com says,




socialism

. [soh-shuh-liz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for socialism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.




Well then that means that a “democratic government” being the representation of the “community,” or even a “dictatorship government” claiming to be the representative of the community as a whole is actually a “socialist” operation. In short, socialism by definition is “government” and government by definition is “socialism.”




Government “owns” the “means”, makes the laws, that “control” the “means” of “production” and “distribution.” Break the government’s laws regarding the means of production and you’ll very soon find out who “OWNS” the means of production, right? Examples: Pot, gambling, business and corporation regulations, “HEALTHCARE.”






OK, now that we’ve proven what socialism is, where does capitalism fit in? Well let’s see what the dictionary says “capitalism” is.




capitalism

. [kap-i-tl-iz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for capitalism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

OK then “capitalism” is actually businesses and investments who & where have by law the majority of control over the means of production and distribution as opposed to the government’s control over such.




I find it a hard press to find anyplace on the globe that Actually has such a system that can honestly be called “capitalism.” True capitalism is a myth. The majority control/ownership of, and distribution of anything and everything, everywhere is determined by the amount of freedom to own and distribute everything and anything by a socialist government.




So, capitalism in short is only determined by degree. How capitalist is your country? How much freedom, (what degree), of freedom does your government allow you and your neighbors and the leaders of industry to own and distribute what you/they produce without government interference? How socialist is the healthcare you’re getting? How much freedom of choice do you have? If your government mandates a single payer healthcare system how much freedom of choice will you have? How “SOCIALIST “ will you admit your healthcare is?
Click to expand...

Are you aware of ESOPs or Co-ops?
 
Deplorable said:
You've just made the same mistakes I think a lot of people make, you've confused type of government with ideology and bought into the argument being made today that you can be a little bit pregnant by being both "socialist" and capitalist.
Click to expand...

Apparently you’ve never noticed particular governments being identified worldwide by their government’s “ideology,” right?

What type of government would you identify China as being? Is China a little bit pregnant? A socialist country, a capitalist country, or some degree of all but pregnant? Or would you just face the wall and call China’s government “A government,” PERIOD?

I understand the point you're trying to make about government control being necessary in order to implement socialism but look at the hoops you had to jump through just to get there: your own definition, the one you went out of your way to supply, doesn't anywhere refer to socialism as a form of government...because it's not.
Click to expand...

Correct! However, socialism is an IDEOLOGY that identifies what degree “A GOVERNMENT IS!” Socialism not being a form of government, but rather government being a form of socialism, because that’s what all government is, that’s the point I’m making and it’s you who “don’t” understand that!

If your argument were that simple to make you would have posted a definition calling socialism a form of government.
Click to expand...

On the contrary! That’s not even my point. The point is and has been made by me that “GOVERNMENT IS A FORM OF SOCIALISM” not socialism being a form of government. Socialism as with capitalism is only operational by “DEGREE” in every country. I would be correct to say “the government is a socialist/capitalist government. That describes likely the majority of just about every country in the world today. From that point the argument becomes to what degree is any particular government socialist and or capitalist. To say any country is totally socialist or totally capitalist, I can’t think of any. North Korea is probably closest to totally socialist.

The other problem with this is that as far as America is concerned the prominent "socialists" in the news today refer to themselves as Democratic Socialists and that kind of socialism has very little to do with, in fact practically nothing, a strong government.
Click to expand...

Every Republican and Democrat is a “democratic socialist.” They all promote and vote for social programs. The question is who’s the most socialist and who’s the most capitalist. Libertarian types are the most capitalist and the R’s & D’s are scattershot in both directions.

Your definition actually got it right, it's a social system. IOW, for those people owning the government is far less important than owning the schools and the media for a few generations because their type of change doesn't come at the ballot box, it happens gradually.
Click to expand...

We agree! The socialist know that better than anybody. Communism fails under it’s own weight, but its ideology of lies lives on forever. They’ve infiltrated our schools all levels of them and they’ve educated millions of brainwashed fools even the majority of major media.

Like I say, I’m not at all sorry to be 82 years old. My odds are good for missing out on the bankruptcy and revolution. I only wish the fools that are voting for it couldn’t take the people that aren’t with them.
 
Robo said:
What is socialism?




Well, dictionary.com says,




socialism

. [soh-shuh-liz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for socialism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.




Well then that means that a “democratic government” being the representation of the “community,” or even a “dictatorship government” claiming to be the representative of the community as a whole is actually a “socialist” operation. In short, socialism by definition is “government” and government by definition is “socialism.”




Government “owns” the “means”, makes the laws, that “control” the “means” of “production” and “distribution.” Break the government’s laws regarding the means of production and you’ll very soon find out who “OWNS” the means of production, right? Examples: Pot, gambling, business and corporation regulations, “HEALTHCARE.”






OK, now that we’ve proven what socialism is, where does capitalism fit in? Well let’s see what the dictionary says “capitalism” is.




capitalism

. [kap-i-tl-iz-uh?m]

ExamplesWord OriginSee more synonyms for capitalism on Thesaurus.com

noun

. an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

OK then “capitalism” is actually businesses and investments who & where have by law the majority of control over the means of production and distribution as opposed to the government’s control over such.




I find it a hard press to find anyplace on the globe that Actually has such a system that can honestly be called “capitalism.” True capitalism is a myth. The majority control/ownership of, and distribution of anything and everything, everywhere is determined by the amount of freedom to own and distribute everything and anything by a socialist government.




So, capitalism in short is only determined by degree. How capitalist is your country? How much freedom, (what degree), of freedom does your government allow you and your neighbors and the leaders of industry to own and distribute what you/they produce without government interference? How socialist is the healthcare you’re getting? How much freedom of choice do you have? If your government mandates a single payer healthcare system how much freedom of choice will you have? How “SOCIALIST “ will you admit your healthcare is?
Click to expand...

What it is? FU, that's what it is.
 
Robo said:
Apparently you’ve never noticed particular governments being identified worldwide by their government’s “ideology,” right?

What type of government would you identify China as being? Is China a little bit pregnant? A socialist country, a capitalist country, or some degree of all but pregnant? Or would you just face the wall and call China’s government “A government,” PERIOD?



Correct! However, socialism is an IDEOLOGY that identifies what degree “A GOVERNMENT IS!” Socialism not being a form of government, but rather government being a form of socialism, because that’s what all government is, that’s the point I’m making and it’s you who “don’t” understand that!



On the contrary! That’s not even my point. The point is and has been made by me that “GOVERNMENT IS A FORM OF SOCIALISM” not socialism being a form of government. Socialism as with capitalism is only operational by “DEGREE” in every country. I would be correct to say “the government is a socialist/capitalist government. That describes likely the majority of just about every country in the world today. From that point the argument becomes to what degree is any particular government socialist and or capitalist. To say any country is totally socialist or totally capitalist, I can’t think of any. North Korea is probably closest to totally socialist.



Every Republican and Democrat is a “democratic socialist.” They all promote and vote for social programs. The question is who’s the most socialist and who’s the most capitalist. Libertarian types are the most capitalist and the R’s & D’s are scattershot in both directions.



We agree! The socialist know that better than anybody. Communism fails under it’s own weight, but its ideology of lies lives on forever. They’ve infiltrated our schools all levels of them and they’ve educated millions of brainwashed fools even the majority of major media.

Like I say, I’m not at all sorry to be 82 years old. My odds are good for missing out on the bankruptcy and revolution. I only wish the fools that are voting for it couldn’t take the people that aren’t with them.
Click to expand...

Do you consider ESOPs to be socialist?
 
What is socialism?
Click to expand...

In the very recent past, according to Republicans, Western Europe and Scandinavia are Socialist.

The weird thing about that? When one happens to mention that Sweden is actually a nice place to live, Republicans immediately get defensive, backtrack, and holler that Sweden is not socialist.

It's almost as if rightwingers did not think things through -- they just mindlessly wanted to use the word "socialism" to denigrate, discredit, and malign.

Leading Republicans Call Western Europe "Socialist"

Newt Gingrich has constantly accused the president of being a "European Socialist", often adding in a reference to an all-but-forgotten community activist from Chicago, who died in 1972, but whose Democratic-leaning writings are thought to have influenced the current president

"I am for the Declaration of Independence; he is for the writing of Saul Alinsky. I am for the Constitution; he is for European socialism," Mr Gingrich told voters in Florida last week.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16583813

Leading Republicans Refer to Western Europe as "Socialists"

....(and let's not forget, rightwing message boarders have spent years calling western Europe "socialist")......

Lately it seems that not a day goes by without a Republican presidential candidate portraying Europe as a socialist nightmare. Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum paint a picture of the Old World as unfree, strangulated by bureaucratic and inefficient welfare systems, and unable to reform and modernize. To these Republicans, Europe seems to be the antipode to everything America is meant to be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.310f3f267a8a
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BOBSL5W.jpg
 
Cypress said:
In the very recent past, according to Republicans, Western Europe and Scandinavia are Socialist.

The weird thing about that? When one happens to mention that Sweden is actually a nice place to live, Republicans immediately get defensive, backtrack, and holler that Sweden is not socialist.

It's almost as if rightwingers did not think things through -- they just mindlessly wanted to use the word "socialism" to denigrate, discredit, and malign.


BOBSL5W.jpg
Click to expand...



10 WORLD-SHAPING SWEDISH COMPANIES

Sweden is the birthplace of many successful innovative companies. According to British Wired Magazine, Sweden has the most digitally connected economy in the world, and its forward-thinking culture fosters innovation. Here are ten companies of Swedish origin shaping the world.


https://sweden.se/business/10-world-shaping-swedish-companies/
 
kudzu said:
10 WORLD-SHAPING SWEDISH COMPANIES

Sweden is the birthplace of many successful innovative companies. According to British Wired Magazine, Sweden has the most digitally connected economy in the world, and its forward-thinking culture fosters innovation. Here are ten companies of Swedish origin shaping the world.


https://sweden.se/business/10-world-shaping-swedish-companies/
Click to expand...

I have always thought of Sweden as a hybrid, democratic social welfare state. With some elements we should emulate.

It is up to Republicans to explain why they spent message board careers calling western Europe and Sandinavia "socialist". Using the standards Republicans themselves established, Sweden is an example of "socialism".
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?106933-What-is-socialism&p=2719286#post2719286
 
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