What is socialism?

[kudzu]

I have always thought of Sweden as a hybrid, democratic social welfare state. With some elements we should emulate.

It is up to Republicans to explain why they spent message board careers calling western Europe and Sandinavia "socialist". Using the standards Republicans themselves established, Sweden is an example of "socialism".
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?106933-What-is-socialism&p=2719286#post2719286

Americans seem to excel at ignorance.

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

For all you people peeing your britches about Socialist Countries....

There has never actually ever been a Socialist country.

I bet, you can only name Communist countries, that uses Socialism.

Sorry Trump fans But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist.

It is certainly true that Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark are notable economic successes. What is false is that these countries are particularly socialist.

Perhaps a better name for what the Nordic countries practice would be compassionate capitalism.

They just do it like adults without all the selfish little self-centered mad chihuahua's barking and snapping at everybody's heels about it!

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Socialism is for the aristocracy, not for the people.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expense for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

Fweedumb.

 

[montgomery]

Socialism is for the aristocracy, not for the people.

Privatized gains versus socialized losses for the Wall Street bankster class
Internalized profit versus externalized risk and expense for the "job creator" class
Socialism for the aristocracy versus laissez-faire capitalism for the masses

Fweedumb.

Try to keep it simple for them. They are at least having the conversation and so they will be more ready to understand when they get screwed by Trump. The Dems are just another greedy capitalist option of course and that makes the task, educating them to understand the only answer lies in a new alternative that is honestly leftist. But the cold war stigma that has them all fearfully hearing commie footsteps behind them is going to take some growing up.

Also to note: bringing in socialized universal health care would just put off the inevitable need for wholesale change and cause them all to be happy, happy for ten more years. Better Americans stick with the shit they've got and feel some more real pain.

Getting out the guns and taking them to the streets would probably be the best way to speed things up a bit.

 

[Robo]

For all you people peeing your britches about Socialist Countries....

There has never actually ever been a Socialist country.

I bet, you can only name Communist countries, that uses Socialism.

Sorry Trump fans But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist.

It is certainly true that Sweden, Norway, Finland, and Denmark are notable economic successes. What is false is that these countries are particularly socialist.

Perhaps a better name for what the Nordic countries practice would be compassionate capitalism.

They just do it like adults without all the selfish little self-centered mad chihuahua's barking and snapping at everybody's heels about it!

They also tax the crap out of their citizens and depend on America for their national defense. Each is also the size and population of single American states, which makes government "socialist" programs much more easily manageable. Their open borders policies are now putting a strain on all of their socialist government programs, and their crime rates are rising. If Americas was loyal to our Constitution, the feds would simply leave the healthcare policies to the individual states like amendment 10 mandates and then your arguments for socialized medicine would hold more water because we'd have an actual laboratory to learn and make sane determinations there from.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

Try to keep it simple for them. They are at least having the conversation and so they will be more ready to understand when they get screwed by Trump. The Dems are just another greedy capitalist option of course and that makes the task, educating them to understand the only answer lies in a new alternative that is honestly leftist. But the cold war stigma that has them all fearfully hearing commie footsteps behind them is going to take some growing up.

Also to note: bringing in socialized universal health care would just put off the inevitable need for wholesale change and cause them all to be happy, happy for ten more years. Better Americans stick with the shit they've got and feel some more real pain.

Getting out the guns and taking them to the streets would probably be the best way to speed things up a bit.

I think that's rather where they're taking it, see the news.

 

[Fentoine Lum]

They also tax the crap out of their citizens and depend on America for their national defense.

No. That's your nation, predatory capitalism, and your Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class sticking their dick in everyone else's business and attempting to occupy the planet militarily as we economically cannibalize the world and our own people at home. Eisenhower warned us about this ages ago.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Why would a person who asks a question like this post on a political discussion forum?

 

[kudzu]

They also tax the crap out of their citizens and depend on America for their national defense. Each is also the size and population of single American states, which makes government "socialist" programs much more easily manageable. Their open borders policies are now putting a strain on all of their socialist government programs, and their crime rates are rising. If Americas was loyal to our Constitution, the feds would simply leave the healthcare policies to the individual states like amendment 10 mandates and then your arguments for socialized medicine would hold more water because we'd have an actual laboratory to learn and make sane determinations there from.

We don't have to reinvent the wheel.. Australia has an excellent healthcare system.

 

[Flash]

A "socialist company" is another name for an employee owned company.

These are the largest 100 employee owned companies in the US:

The Employee Ownership 100: America's Largest Majority Employee-Owned Companies

https://www.nceo.org/articles/employee-ownership-100

Cooperatives or employee owned companies are capitalistic--they are privately owned just as an individually owned business or a corporation run by a board of directors. Socialism is publicly owned (government).

Socialism, by definition, is who controls the means of production and distribution. Programs like Social Security, welfare programs, etc. are not socialistic because they do not involve the production and distribution of goods and services. Medicare is not socialist because our healthcare industry is privately owned and operated (except the VA).

An example of socialism is China in which steel production and other major industries are entirely controlled by the government or government is a major owner of the business. Communism is a political system and capitalism and socialism are economic systems. Communism, by definition, has a socialist economic system. Being communist is not much more than having political control by the communist party and claiming to be communist.

 

[kudzu]

Cooperatives or employee owned companies are capitalistic--they are privately owned just as an individually owned business or a corporation run by a board of directors.

Socialism is publicly owned (government).

Socialism, by definition, is who controls the means of production and distribution.

Programs like Social Security, welfare programs, etc. are not socialistic because they do not involve the production and distribution of goods and services. Medicare is not socialist because our healthcare industry is privately owned and operated (except the VA).

An example of socialism is China in which steel production and other major industries are entirely controlled by the government or government is a major owner of the business.

Communism is a political system and capitalism and socialism are economic systems. Communism, by definition, has a socialist economic system. Being communist is not much more than having political control by the communist party and claiming to be communist.

LOLOL.. I know.. but I thank you for reinforcing what Socialism is and isn't.

 

[Robo]

No. That's your nation, predatory capitalism, and your Wall Street/donor/"job creator" class sticking their dick in everyone else's business and attempting to occupy the planet militarily as we economically cannibalize the world and our own people at home. Eisenhower warned us about this ages ago.

Then you contend that Nordic Nation's taxes are low/lower than America's and they totally supply their own national defense system and have no reliance on America's military, right?

If you paid attention you'd know I never, ever promote or defend America's bloated corrupt Military Industrial Complex. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and pour billions into defending Europe while Europe spends their treasuries on Socialist programs.

 

[Robo]

We don't have to reinvent the wheel.. Australia has an excellent healthcare system.

What's Australia's population relative to America's population? What % of Australia's GDP is spent on national defense? How many Australians are severely wounded veterans? What makes Australia's healthcare so "excellent?" What's Australian's average tax rate and how long are the wait times for healthcare in Australia? Why is Australia's healthcare a perfect model for America? I need convincing!

 

[kudzu]

What's Australia's population relative to America's population? What % of Australia's GDP is spent on national defense? How many Australians are severely wounded veterans? What makes Australia's healthcare so "excellent?" What's Australian's average tax rate and how long are the wait times for healthcare in Australia? Why is Australia's healthcare a perfect model for America? I need convincing!

Doesn't matter.. They also have issues with distances and unavailability of services at distance from major cities and towns.. Australians LOVE their healthcare and would fight you to keep it. You must think Americans are too stupid to pull it off.

 

[kudzu]

Then you contend that Nordic Nation's taxes are low/lower than America's and they totally supply their own national defense system and have no reliance on America's military, right?

If you paid attention you'd know I never, ever promote or defend America's bloated corrupt Military Industrial Complex. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist and pour billions into defending Europe while Europe spends their treasuries on Socialist programs.

Maybe they are smarter.

 

[Robo]

Cooperatives or employee owned companies are capitalistic--they are privately owned just as an individually owned business or a corporation run by a board of directors. Socialism is publicly owned (government).

So then by your own definitions, publically traded businesses on the markets are “publically owned” and thereby according to you “SOCIALISM,” right?

I disagree! The only part you have right is the fact “The People,” i.e. “The Public, are actually “The Government” i.e. “A government of and by the people.” The companies themselves are not social-“ism.” Social-“ism,” is simply an ideology. They’re simply publically owned operations under the control of a government “ideology” of “socialism.” The people/government own the means of production and distribution. That’s what socialism does.

A capitalist business is solely owned by an individual or individuals citizen or citizens not traded at a “public” market place. Even a “mostly” capitalist company governed by government regulations is controlled by “the IDEOLOGY” of socialism and thereby in a sense owned by the government who actually controls its production and distribution to a “DEGREE.”

Socialism just like capitalism are ideologies. Each play a roll of some degree in virtually every nation on earth.

 

[kudzu]

So then by your own definitions, publically traded businesses on the markets are “publically owned” and thereby according to you “SOCIALISM,” right?

I disagree! The only part you have right is the fact “The People,” i.e. “The Public, are actually “The Government” i.e. “A government of and by the people.” The companies themselves are not social-“ism.” Social-“ism,” is simply an ideology. They’re simply publically owned operations under the control of a government “ideology” of “socialism.” The people/government own the means of production and distribution. That’s what socialism does.

A capitalist business is solely owned by an individual or individuals citizen or citizens not traded at a “public” market place. Even a “mostly” capitalist company governed by government regulations is controlled by “the IDEOLOGY” of socialism and thereby in a sense owned by the government who actually controls its production and distribution to a “DEGREE.”

Socialism just like capitalism are ideologies. Each play a roll of some degree in virtually every nation on earth.

Are you opposed the work place safety, child labor laws and environmental protections? Is that what you are referencing as "socialism"?

 

[Robo]

Socialism, by definition, is who controls the means of production and distribution. Programs like Social Security, welfare programs, etc. are not socialistic because they do not involve the production and distribution of goods and services. Medicare is not socialist because our healthcare industry is privately owned and operated (except the VA).

Then your argument is that government doesn’t own Social Security, Welfare Programs, etc, because they “DON’T” involve the production and distribution of the money that they survive on, right? Government “Doesn’t” decide who gets Socialist Security and socialist welfare. Government isn’t the “controller” of those programs, right? Government “doesn’t” collect, (the means), “produce” the loot that pays the bills for those programs, right? Actually I argue that those programs in particular are next to absolute socialistic programs and that’s exactly why they call them correctly “SOCIAL” programs!

 

[Robo]

An example of socialism is China in which steel production and other major industries are entirely controlled by the government or government is a major owner of the business.

Ah yes, you make my argument for me, thanks friend! I quote you, “OR GOVERNMENT IS A MAJOR OWNER.,” (end quote) Seems you agree that socialism is not determined by “IF” it’s socialism, but rather HOW MUCH socialism is involved, don’t you agree?

Communism is a political system and capitalism and socialism are economic systems. Communism, by definition, has a socialist economic system. Being communist is not much more than having political control by the communist party and claiming to be communist.

Actually, socialism, capitalism and communism are all simply “ideologies.” All government by definition is socialist “BY DEGREE.” Communism is simply socialism in it’s most absolute form. The so called “pure” socialist argue that absolute socialism, (pure socialism), is absolute democracy governing by referendums by a majority of the people, i.e. a true and perfect democracy. Think about that awhile and you’ll soon come to the conclusion it’s actually mob rule and pure insanity, if your sane.

 

[Robo]

Are you opposed the work place safety, child labor laws and environmental protections? Is that what you are referencing as "socialism"?

Not opposed, and YES! Again all government is socialist, collective force of law. If we believe in a constitutional rule of law, we also believe in a necessity for a "DEGREE" of socialism. The argument and question is "HOW MUCH" socialism, control, law is necessary?