What Next With NK?

If China truly had the ability to propel NK to do what they wish as we believe that they do, they could and would have stopped them if they didn't believe that NK's nukes wouldn't be beneficial to them.

I believe that China has the ability to sink NK, but I doubt they have sufficient influence to stop the nuke program.

This isn't circular. Having the ability to sink a nation isn't the same as having the power to direct their policy.

The US could stop all finances to Israel and sink the nation, though I doubt the US could use the threat of it to persuade Israel to revoke its claim to Jerusalem.

Does that make it clearer?
 
I made it clear already, if they truly have the power to sink them they have the power to influence their policy. Can I make it any clearer for you? Either they have this power and therefore have the power to direct NK policy, or they do not. One does not exist without the other.

If they have the ability to sink NK they have the power to "suggest" policy and make those "suggestions" stick. To pretend otherwise is pretense and directly circular. You can see this with Israel and the US, often we have made them accept terms they would otherwise have not.
 
If the US had the ability to sink Iraq why didn't they have the power to "suggest" policy and make those "suggestions" stick. .
 
I made it clear already, if they truly have the power to sink them they have the power to influence their policy.

Again, the US has the power to sink Israel, but if America threatened it, would Israel revoke its claim over Jerusalem?

The ability to devastate a country doesn't mean that you have influence to stop major national policy decisions.
 
Damocles said:
I made it clear already, if they truly have the power to sink them they have the power to influence their policy. Can I make it any clearer for you? Either they have this power and therefore have the power to direct NK policy, or they do not. One does not exist without the other.
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No, that doesn't follow, as AOI has already pointed out.
If they have the ability to sink NK they have the power to "suggest" policy and make those "suggestions" stick. To pretend otherwise is pretense and directly circular. You can see this with Israel and the US, often we have made them accept terms they would otherwise have not.
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No, your proof fails. The ability to ruin a nation economically does not directly imply the ability to dictate that nation's policy. Have you never heard of a Pyrrhic victory? Or even simple cussedness? There are plenty of people willing to ruin their own nation simply to prove a point. Where do you think neo-cons and isolationists come from?

Human beings, especially powerful dictators and plutocrats, do not necessarily conform to Damocles' personal notions of rationality. Nor mine either, for that matter.
 
There are plenty of people willing to ruin their own nation simply to prove a point.

A classic example is Hitler's scorched Earth policy as his forces were pushed back into Germany...
 
OrnotBitwise said:
No, that doesn't follow, as AOI has already pointed out.
No, your proof fails. The ability to ruin a nation economically does not directly imply the ability to dictate that nation's policy. Have you never heard of a Pyrrhic victory? Or even simple cussedness? There are plenty of people willing to ruin their own nation simply to prove a point. Where do you think neo-cons and isolationists come from?

Human beings, especially powerful dictators and plutocrats, do not necessarily conform to Damocles' personal notions of rationality. Nor mine either, for that matter.
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I still do not think it will take destroying them to end this. I still think that China has that influence and Il knows it, China just does it in the background so that they will not lose face. I believe that China let it get this far for a purpose, one of their own that I really don't know right now.

I believe that if one has that ability to entirely sink another nation, they most definitely have the ability to effect their policy.
 
There are plenty of people willing to ruin their own nation simply to prove a point. Where do you think neo-cons and isolationists come from?


LMAO!
 
uscitizen said:
Then our leadership and over half of this country was wrong then.
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I believe so. Hence the reason they didn't ask for a War Declaration. They knew they'd never get it.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20. We know now that they had removed the WMD. Those who voted and those who pushed for it believed there to be WMD in the nation.
 
Tsk..tsk. they should have listened to me ;)
Of course Bushies on FP only ridiculed me and would not listen either. Some have changed their tunes now though.
 
I still do not think it will take destroying them to end this. I still think that China has that influence and Il knows it, China just does it in the background so that they will not lose face. I believe that China let it get this far for a purpose, one of their own that I really don't know right now.

This is pretty heavy speculation, do you have anything to substantiate it?

I believe that if one has that ability to entirely sink another nation, they most definitely have the ability to effect their policy.

Could the US get Israel to revoke its claim to Jerusalem?
 
AnyOldIron said:
I still do not think it will take destroying them to end this. I still think that China has that influence and Il knows it, China just does it in the background so that they will not lose face. I believe that China let it get this far for a purpose, one of their own that I really don't know right now.

This is pretty heavy speculation, do you have anything to substantiate it?

I believe that if one has that ability to entirely sink another nation, they most definitely have the ability to effect their policy.

Could the US get Israel to revoke its claim to Jerusalem?
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It is equal speculation to suggest the opposite. As for the Jerusalem question... If their only other option was destruction... I believe that they could. Israel would not, however, give it up to Muslims... I would think it would have to be as an International city.
 
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