White Nationalists v Democratic Socialists!

[Flash]

So...you said before that the message the flag conveys includes "go back to Africa".

Well, here's an EEOC statute that specifically says that specific phrase itself is harassment and is unlawful.

So in the workplace, it's illegal to tell someone to "go back to where you came from" because it is not only offensive, but also intimidating.

Woops. How inconvenient for your argument.

Of course, you can't do that in the workplace just as you don't have the freedom to wave a flag calling for peace and justice. Your free speech is limited to private property with the owner's permission or public places. You cannot express offensive views in your place of business. Even without the EEOC regulations your boss is not likely to accept such language.

Notice, however, the EEOC guidelines you posted said "verbal or physical" conduct, not flags although I'm sure your employer would not permit those, either.

You are getting farther and farther afield. Now you are talking about workplace behavior and not constitutional freedom of speech.

You are in trouble: " Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults,

 

[TTQ64]

Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
There was a voter intimidation case in 2008 in Philadelphia when the New Black Panther Party members stood in the entrance to a polling place with a billy club shouting racial slurs. Most of those charges were dropped. "The federal government eventually obtained an injunction forbidding Shabazz from displaying a weapon within 100 feet of a Philadelphia polling location." This was much more intimidating than waving a flag a far distance from the poll, but it still did not fit the law.

This ignorant racist and his false equivalencies............LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[LV426]

More lies. I never said I dismissed anybody.

By saying that those people are merely "offended" instead of "intimidated" you dismiss them.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

 

[LV426]

I understand their position.

No you don't, because you keep trying to diminish it by saying they are merely "offended" and not "intimidated".

You're patronizing them, and you don't even realize it.

Or maybe you do realize it and it gets you off.

 

[LV426]

I worked in the war on poverty program in the 1960's, worked for Barbara Jordan's election to the Texas Senate and heard her speak at our politics club several times. I am not dismissive of the issue.

Yes, you are dismissive of the issue because you boil down their legitimate claims of intimidation to mere "offense", like they're too hysterical and crazy to know what they're feeling and only you, the sober, fence-sitting asshole, can make the correct judgment because you worked in the war on poverty 60 years ago?

Doesn't seem to me like you learned anything from that experience, if you even had it and aren't just exaggerating or fabricating.

My point is that it is not consistent with current law or basic American principles or constitutional law. We can't ban anything that might offend someone.

See, there you go again...dismissing and diminishing intimidation by waving it off as mere "offense".

Do you think "intimidation" and "offense" are synonyms and that's why you interchange them?

Please explain how you would handle cases in which a person feels they are intimidated?

What do you mean? I'm not a lawyer, but I would probably start with a civil suit based on EEOC statutes that says that intimidation is unlawful.

 

[Flash]

WAIT WHAT?

By "scare voters away" you mean "intimidate" right?

Did anyone threaten to harm them if they voted or did not vote? Then, no, it was not intimidation.

If they wanted to "scare voters away" why would they use a Confederate Flag? Oh right, because according to you, the message conveyed by that flag is telling people to "go back to where they came from", which the EEOC says is illegal intimidation.

The EEOC applies to the workplace by fellow employees or supervisors.

And "go back where they came from" is only one possible message the flag could represent. You cannot come up with all possibilities and say it represents all of them. Besides, messages not conveyed verbally are just vague symbolic speech.

But you keep forgetting the two main points:
1. The legal definition of intimidation
2. The 1st Amendment prohibits banning any kind of flag or symbol that is free expression.

That means the Constitution prohibits any kind of fascist restrictions you want to impose on our freedoms--which you know because I have repeated it endlessly.

 

[LV426]

You said they were wrong if they were intimidating. Intimidation does not just involve racism, violence, slavery, oppression or hate. Now you are saying intimidation is ok unless it involves black people. Things intimidating white people are acceptable. That is the real racism.

So...

You said one of the messages that flag conveys is "Go back to Africa".

Well, according to the EEOC statutes, that specific phrase is intimidation and unlawful.

So...I'm curious what criminal statute you're looking at when the civil EEOC statute makes it very clear that the messages conveyed by the flag you love so much are unlawful and illegal.

 

[Cinnabar]

Do you know what "empathy" is?

Of course not, because you're a narcissist.

Empathy is the ability to see things from someone else's perspective.

You are simply incapable of doing that.

Which is precisely why Trump has become the standard bearer for people with that affliction who have possibly been closeted about their lack of empathy until he gave them a platform and also why the current GOP attracts sociopathic representatives.

 

[LV426]

Messages are free speech and is not an ACT of intimidation.

Oh, but they are...

Ethnic slurs or other verbal or physical conduct because of national origin are illegal if they are severe or pervasive and create an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment, interfere with work performance, or negatively affect job opportunities. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from," whether made by supervisors or by co-workers.
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/upload/Immigrant-Rights-Brochure-Review-wOLCedits.pdf

 

[LV426]

You must threaten to harm someone unless they follow your orders. That is intimidation.

No, all you need to do is create a hostile environment; like the EEOC says is the case if that phrase "go back to where you came from" was uttered.

So...it's unlawful and illegal to tell someone to "go back to where you came from" because it creates a hostile environment...and intimidation would be a part of that hostility, wouldn't it?

Or, threatening to shoot or wlpe out people you disagree with--that is intimidating (by your definition). Yet, you found it acceptable to write it many times.

It's sad you think that my problem with Nazis is merely a disagreement and not a moral conflict.

 

[LV426]

Because it may be offensive but is not intimidation.

Whoa! Now you're moving the bar.

So there does exist the capacity that the flag can intimidate someone? That seems to be what you're saying.

Your prior position was that was impossible. Now you're moving the goalposts.

So...who determines if it's offense or intimidation? Because you can't make that determination yourself. So who can? Probably the victim, right? But you dismiss those victims by diminishing what they're experiencing because it's inconvenient for you.

You are too lazy to research the term. Because you cannot understand the meaning of a term does not mean we should follow your definition.

Flash, all I'm doing is using your own words against you.

You switch out "intimidation" with "offense" because you can wave off "offense" but you can't wave off "intimidation".

That's why you hedged in the first fucking sentence of this post.

Because there IS a line at which point that flag crosses into intimidation from offense...you said so yourself.

So what I'm saying is, if that is the flag's capacity, then isn't it a tool of intimidation?

The important difference is that intimidation as you are using the term is not illegal.

The EEOC literally says "go back to where you came from" is an unlawful and illegal form of intimidation.

It's pathetic how you think you can patronize people into seeing things from your perspective. That's what narcissists do.

 

[LV426]

Legally? Only if you threaten to take some action (or take some action) to make them your slave or send them back. You can tell somebody anything you want unless you threaten them. You have committed no crime.

Well, guess what, Flash?

YOU'RE WRONG.

Ethnic slurs or other verbal or physical conduct because of national origin are illegal if they are severe or pervasive and create an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment, interfere with work performance, or negatively affect job opportunities. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from," whether made by supervisors or by co-workers.
https://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/upload/Immigrant-Rights-Brochure-Review-wOLCedits.pdf

You literally said one of the messages the flag conveys is "Go back to where you came from".

That was something YOU SAID.

Now we have the EEOC telling us that is a form of intimidation in the workplace. So if it's a form of intimidation in the workplace, then wouldn't it also be a form of intimidation outside the workplace?

 

[LV426]

not by simply waving a flag, it isn't. Thats the same thing as equating the rainbow flag with pedophilia.........a misnomer and false representation

Ah, but the message of the flag is "go back to where you came from" or "slavery", isn't it?

 

[LV426]

Thats the same thing as equating the rainbow flag with pedophilia.........a misnomer and false representation

I don't understand what you're saying here.

You're saying pedophiles wave the rainbow flag? Where?

 

[LV426]

not by simply waving a flag, it isn't. Thats the same thing as equating the rainbow flag with pedophilia.........a misnomer and false representation

And also, pedophilia isn't hetero- or homo-sexual. It's pedophilia. It's its own thing. It's not one of the letters in LGBTQ, is it?

 

[LV426]

Exactly. He worries about people being intimidated by a flag, but he makes violent posts much more intimidating than anything involving Confederate symbols.

LV426: No Conservative can be allowed a voice after this shit.

LV426: They must be marginalized, and we must have a second Reconstruction to eliminate their political power.

26: DIE.

LV426: Seriously, fucking die.

LV426: I hope you overdose on opioids and I hope your family finds your rotten, bloated corpse.

LV426: Literally, Conservative militias and lawmakers threatened violence and showed up armed to occupy the state house in Oregon.

LV426: I say forget arresting them and dragging them to do their jobs; just fucking shoot on sight. They're terrorists and have made it clear they will hire brownshirts.

LV426: I say call their bluffs. Open fire. Kill 'em all. Conservatives have made it clear they would rather blow up the country than adhere to democratic norms. So give them what they want and fucking end them.

LV426: Instead of backing down, I think these governors and mayors and politicians should call their bluff and BLAST THEIR TRAITOROUS ASSES TO KINGDOM COME.

Look, you take up arms against the government to intimidate it, then I think the government should call that bluff.

 

[LV426]

You're doing it again.......telling Blacks what they feel is irrelevant?

I told you it intimidate me and you dismiss it.

Exactly. Flash is a patronizing narcissist who has done nothing to earn the entitlement he thinks he has.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Ah, but the message of the flag is "go back to where you came from" or "slavery", isn't it?

only in your mindset. To many others down here it means southern pride

 

[SmarterthanYou]

And also, pedophilia isn't hetero- or homo-sexual. It's pedophilia. It's its own thing. It's not one of the letters in LGBTQ, is it?

but a huge misnomer about gays is that they are pedophiles, thus waving a rainbow flag means you support pedophilia..........are you getting it yet?

 

[LV426]

Of course, you can't do that in the workplace just as you don't have the freedom to wave a flag calling for peace and justice.

Wrong, Flash...carefully read that statute I linked to. It doesn't permit what you think it does.

It literally says "Go back to where you came from" is intimidation.

That's what you said yourself the flag conveys.

You stepped in it.

Your free speech is limited to private property with the owner's permission or public places.

PUBLIC PLACES!

So waving a flag in a public place whose message is "go back to where you came from" is illegal and unlawful!

They're waving these flags in public places, Flash.

Notice, however, the EEOC guidelines you posted said "verbal or physical" conduct, not flags although I'm sure your employer would not permit those, either.

Waving a flag isn't a physical act?

You are getting farther and farther afield. Now you are talking about workplace behavior and not constitutional freedom of speech.

OMFG, Flash.

You said the flag conveys the message of "go back to where you came from".

The EEOC says that phrase is intimidation.

You spent all this time saying that the Confederate Flag isn't intimidating, yet the key core message you said that flag coveys is considered intimidation in the workplace and in public places.

So why wouldn't it also be intimidation in any other place?

You are in trouble: " Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults,

Ummm...so you do that shitty Flash thing where you rip a part of a statement out of its full context because you're a cheap fucking bastard.

Here's what they actually said...full context because you're a lying, duplicitous piece of shit:

"Ethnic slurs or other verbal or physical conduct because of national origin are illegal if they are severe or pervasive and create an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment, interfere with work performance, or negatively affect job opportunities. Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person's accent or comments like, "Go back to where you came from," whether made by supervisors or by co-workers."

So you completely cut the context out of your shitty response, you douchebag.

So I can insult you all day long as long as I'm not doing so toward your ethnicity or national origin, which I haven't done at all.

Why are you such a slimy piece of shit?