Intimidation doesn't need to prohibit actual behavior, it merely needs to create a hostile environment.
That's what the EEOC says, at least.
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White Nationalists v Democratic Socialists!
- Thread starter Jarod
- Start date
Intimidation doesn't need to prohibit actual behavior, it merely needs to create a hostile environment.
That's what the EEOC says, at least.
You have to wait until local jurisdictions choose to remove them which they can never do with a flag or other symbol people choose to show voluntarily.
Except that you don't need to do that, as the Marines just proved two days ago when the Marine commandant ordered all Confederate flags to be removed from all Marine bases everywhere.
Calling people entitled, privileged, sophist, or narcissist are not arguments against the fact that Americans are free to wave flags or build monuments whenever they choose. This fact does not change regardless of my opinion on the topic. Our freedoms are protected against fascist state tactics and no juvenile personal attacks on me changes that reality.
The reality is that you don't want to accept "intimidation" simply because of what it means for your argument. Period.
So you have to gaslight people in your own narcissistic way to tell them what they're feeling isn't "intimidation", but rather "offense".
And the only reason you do that is because you think you are entitled to make that judgment because...because...well, that's what is a mystery. You haven't earned that entitlement. You aren't a lawyer. You're not a free speech expert. You're none of these things. You're a privileged, coddled, entitled white guy who isn't the target of any discrimination or intimidation.
You say you care about history and that tearing those flags down will erase history, but you don't have the same outrage for people who actually erase the history of that flag by waving it outside of a museum and historical context.
You're a hypocrite. You hold a contradictory position not because you believe it, but because you don't want to give me the satisfaction of being right about your inherent privilege and narcissism.
But guess what? I don't need that satisfaction. So you're wasting your integrity for no reason.
But they do, though. You even said yourself they do. So now you're going back on what you said before, aboiut what the flag represents, to say it now doesn't represent that because if it did, it would count as intimidation.
I would consider the message of "you should be a slave" as intimidating.
But you need it to be a mere "offense" because if you admitted it was intimidation, your entire argument falls apart.
Because there is no threat to make you do something. My views have been the same the entire debate. It cannot be (illegal) intimidation if it does not contain a threat and no flag or monument carries any threat. It only represents what someone perceives it to mean--Southern pride, fashion statement, white supremacy, loyalty to the Southern cause, etc.
You keep arguing against what you think are my views where in reality you are arguing against civil, criminal, and constitutional law as they exist today.
You cannot find a single case where a person was prosecuted or sued for intimidation for carrying a flag. Your political views do not make something wrong.
We can't remove everything that makes a person feel intimidated.
Sure we can. But doing so would mean you'd have to admit that you're gaslighting black people by telling them what they're feeling isn't "intimidation" but rather mere "offense."
Why don't you stroll into a black neighborhood and tell folks just that and see how it goes for you, because it's not going well for you here...it's making you look like a narcissist (and kind of racist too).
It's racist because it's you telling black people and other minorities that they're being hysterical or melodramatic, and that they should just calm down and stop being so uppity.
I don't believe for a second you worked on any anti-poverty programs in the 1960's. I think you're lying about that.
I think you were one of those people who stood outside places like the University of Alabama -or any integrated school- and hurled invective at the black students attending there. I think you're one of those people who attacked the Selma Marchers. I think you supported beating the freedom riders because they didn't respect the rule of law. I think you would have said Rosa Parks should have been arrested for not obeying the law. I think you're one of those people who dumped trash on black folks sitting at lunch counters. I think you have a Confederate Flag tucked away somewhere in your house.
That's fits your MO and it fits your pattern of diminishing the concerns of anyone who doesn't share your background or privilege.
We do not have safe zones like some nanny colleges, this is the real world.
You hear that black people? This is the REAL WORLD so get your emotions in check and stop being so melodramatic; understand your feelings and what you're experiencing like Flash here, because he's got his shit together.
Iu will get wiser as you mature and get over being so overly sensitive and thinking black people need your understanding to be successful and protected from flags.
Wow...what a fucking patronizing racist piece of shit.
I take back any apologies or any nice thing I said about you. I take it all back. You have shown everyone who you really are, and that person is a racist piece of trash.
The reality is that you don't want to accept "intimidation" simply because of what it means for your argument. Period.
So you have to gaslight people in your own narcissistic way to tell them what they're feeling isn't "intimidation", but rather "offense".
And the only reason you do that is because you think you are entitled to make that judgment because...because...well, that's what is a mystery. You haven't earned that entitlement. You aren't a lawyer. You're not a free speech expert. You're none of these things. You're a privileged, coddled, entitled white guy who isn't the target of any discrimination or intimidation.
You say you care about history and that tearing those flags down will erase history, but you don't have the same outrage for people who actually erase the history of that flag by waving it outside of a museum and historical context.
You're a hypocrite. You hold a contradictory position not because you believe it, but because you don't want to give me the satisfaction of being right about your inherent privilege and narcissism.
But guess what? I don't need that satisfaction. So you're wasting your integrity for no reason.
That's because you have been too lazy and self-righteous to look at the law defining intimidation because you know it proves you wrong. This is not my judgment, it is the law and you can't find any support for your views in any law or court decision.
My position is not contrary, it is the law. Yours is simply a political opinion with no legal or governmental support (outside the workplace).
Repeating the same misinformed view of the law again and again does not make it true. At least your EEOC regulations were an attempt to find some support even though you tried to apply it outside the workplace--a great example of that cheap sophistry you are always accusing posters of.
IIt is just white liberal guilt that creates your need for paternal control and thinking others just do not understand the issue.
Yeah, you were a segregationist in the 1960's, weren't you?
Your argument against desegregation was probably the same one Barry Goldwater used in 1964 as he campaigned against the Civil Rights Act (which you would have also opposed at the time)
You're on the wrong side of history and always have been, haven't you?
Any message those things convey are not threats and thus not legally intimidation. .
"I think you should be subjugated" isn't a threat or intimidation?
White supremacy isn't threatening or intimidating?
Well not to you because you're a white supremacist.
Wow...what a fucking patronizing racist piece of shit.
I take back any apologies or any nice thing I said about you. I take it all back. You have shown everyone who you really are, and that person is a racist piece of trash.
You never said anything nice. When you took your meds you were sometimes rational and civil, but most times you were full of hate, hostile, angry, and insulted other posters.
I have proven you wrong about the law again and again and you still cannot grasp reality, this debate is a waste of time.
And because a person says he is intimidated by something does not mean he can restrict their free expression.
Ah, but it's not "free expression" if it's intimidation, and the specific things you said that the Confederate Flag conveys are considered intimidation in the workplace, so it stands to reason they would also be considered intimidation outside the workplace.
Would your solution be to amend the 1st Amendment to prohibit any kind of speech you don't like? Hate speech, offensive speech, speech a person finds intimidating?
Funny how in the context of white supremacy you choose to use the word "solution". I'm sure that's just a coincidence given the charged meaning of it.
Anyway, let's start with banning Confederate Flags, just like how Germany banned Nazi flags, and see how it goes.
If you no longer have the freedom to patronize people, then I guess I will jump to your defense. But I have a sneaking suspicion that if we banned Confederate flags like Germany banned Nazi flags, no one's life would change one iota for the worse.
"I think you should be subjugated" isn't a threat or intimidation?
White supremacy isn't threatening or intimidating?
Well not to you because you're a white supremacist.
No, if I walk up to you and say "I think you should be my slave" that is perfectly legal speech absent any threatening actions. A flag cannot even do that much as it usually must be addressed to a specific person and not anybody who happens to view that flag.
You are getting ridiculous with your charges. A white supremacist? Earlier you told me I was anti-semitic because I criticized your fascist tendencies when I didn't even know you were Jewish.
Insults do not make a debate. It is juvenile name calling.
Ah, but it's not "free expression" if it's intimidation, and the specific things you said that the Confederate Flag conveys are considered intimidation in the workplace, so it stands to reason they would also be considered intimidation outside the workplace.
Nope. As I explained twice before you do not have the same 1st Amendment freedoms in the workplace (or on another person's property) that you have in public. Did you forget already?
Anyway, let's start with banning Confederate Flags, just like how Germany banned Nazi flags, and see how it goes.
We can't, it would be unconstitutional. Germany does not have the 1st Amendment. And, you will notice that Germany has banned those symbols land still has a rise of far right, Neo-Nazi, and white supremacist groups.
And the New Black Panther Party members in Philadelphia. The difference is they made threats with a billy club.
OK, so?
Those flags never made a threat to anybody. Did anybody not vote because of those flags? You keep conveniently leaving out the "threat" element of intimidation because you know it destroys your argument.
It's a form of voter suppression and has been for decades, dating all the way back to Reconstruction. It creates a hostile environment.
But you wouldn't know any of that because you don't know anything about black history.
Here's an actual black person telling you what it is. Will you listen to her? No, because you're a patronizing narcissist: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...erate-battle-flag-is-a-symbol-of-intimidation
Because there is no threat to make you do something.
Intimidation doesn't need to make you do anything...intimidation can be as simple as making someone afraid.
I don't know why you are getting so hung up on there needing to be a physical action tied to intimidation other than the physical action of waving the flag.
You said the flag represents white supremacy and racism...if you don't think those two things are intimidating to people, then you're either a white supremacist yourself, or you're a narcissist.
So which is it?
It only represents what someone perceives it to mean
THEN YOU ARE ERASING HISTORY.
I'm old enough to remember when you said anyone who erases history is a fascist.
So all this time, you accused me of erasing history but you're the one actually doing the history erasing!
I think you know that, but you just don't want to give me the satisfaction of admitting it because you know I'll never let it go.
And you're right...I won't.
It only represents what someone perceives it to mean--Southern pride, fashion statement, white supremacy, loyalty to the Southern cause, etc.
So Flash, you can't say on the one hand that the flag teaches history, and then say on the other hand that history is meaningless.
You keep arguing against what you think are my views where in reality you are arguing against civil, criminal, and constitutional law as they exist today.
You haven't actually posted any criminal statutes about intimidation this thread, but I did post a statute from the EEOC that specifically called out the phrase you said yourself the Confederate Flag conveys as unlawful intimidation.
You cannot find a single case where a person was prosecuted or sued for intimidation for carrying a flag.
Flash, we are talking about something I want to do, not something that's already been done. So I see how you've given up on arguing that silly black people are just overreacting because you realized how patronizingly racist it was, and switched tactics to say "well then show me any example fo someone being prosecuted for flying a flag"
So now you seek accommodation because you cannot defend your own position that the flag doesn't convey a message of intimidation that you said it does, that even the EEOC classifies as such, because holding yourself to any kind of standard isn't something a narcissist will ever do.
Whether or not someone has been prosecuted before for flying a flag isn't really important...but a judge last year did order a centrist to remove a Confederate Flag because of how it intimidated his neighbors:
‘I am scared because I am black.’ Connecticut man ordered to take down Confederate flag after waging harassment campaign against neighbors
https://www.courant.com/news/connec...0191125-zqnmzsqas5bh5jt6bwhju3ui5y-story.html
See, the problem with you, Flash, is that you're an incredibly lazy and incredibly selfish piece of shit. So you make shitty arguments because you think you are entitled to any version of reality or the truth you can devise, and the reason you think that is because of your shitty parents never holding you to any standard, and that no one in your life has ever challenged you to be a better version of the garbage person you are.
So you make unforced errors, you trip all over your arguments, you lie about what you say from post to post, and you can't keep your throughline straight.
You're about as worthless a person as there ever has been. Sitting on the fence is also an act of narcissism because you're clearly deriving some kind of pleasure from having that fence post up your ass. I'm just amazed you could find room for it up there alongside your head.