But as you said, they can be used as tools of intimidation because of the messages you also said they convey.
Southern Florida is not "The South".
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But as you said, they can be used as tools of intimidation because of the messages you also said they convey.
Southern Florida is not "The South".
Have we established that? You haven't articulated what is intimidating. You just said it was intimidating because some people equate homosexuality with pedophilia, but none of the people who wave the flag make that equivalence, but plenty of people who wave the Confederate Flag about do so because of white supremacy...like this guy:
Some people believe if we have gay marriage nobody will have more kids and the human race is doomed, some people think homosexuals want to recruit their children, or that gays shouldn't be teachers because they might molest children.
They may be wrong about all these things, but if they believe it they might feel intimidated just like blacks face no danger of having slavery or segregation returning but they might still feel intimidated by a flag. In both cases, people felt intimidated for unjustified fears.
Well, Nazis are inherently violent and intimidating...it's what makes them Nazis.
You sure about that? Because our government routinely kills people opposed to it all the time, both at home and abroad. Sometimes our government even has other governments kill people opposed to our government for us. And sometimes our government lets other governments kill people who live and work in our country who are opposed to those other governments.
All that has happened in the last 12 months, by the way.
What political rights?
But they're waving the flag in order to intimidate people; as you said yourself, the flag represents slavery, white supremacy and sending people back to from where they came.
YOU SAID THAT.
SmarterthanYou
rebel
never mind. i see you're stuck on attacking the south
OK, but is that intimidation? How so?
Right, but no gay people say that, do they? No gay people do that, do they? But Conservatives wave the Confederate flag to proudly proclaim their love of white supremacy...like this guy who killed nine people because he is a white supremacist:
The difference is that there is no history of the Rainbow Flag being used as a tool of oppression and intimidation, ever. EVER. However, there is plenty of history of the Confederate flag doing that.
I'm old enough to remember when you said preserving history was the most important thing.
Well, here was your chance to preserve history, and you didn't raise to a level to meet those expectations you've set for yourself.
How is posting a photo of the Charleston Church shooter "attacking the South"?
Unless you're going to say the South is synonymous with the values of Dylan Roof.
Are you saying that?
Wrong on both counts. Unless there are threats to force you to do something there is no intimidation (only something a person might find offensive)
I never said the flags/monuments convey those things. I listed several things I said they could convey to different people. They don't necessarily convey all those things to anybody.
I'm not Southern Florida (although Florida was a Confederate state). Where are you? Georgia?
You keep changing your argument. First, each person gets to decide if they are victims of intimidation.
Then, they have to articulate it---apparently feeling intimidated is not enough
Now, there has to be a history of intimidation. A person feeling intimidated and being able to articulate it is not sufficient.
And, you are again pretending a flag or monument can threaten somebody. Unless you use the flag as a weapon to physically threaten someone it cannot be an instrument of oppression.
You still do not grasp the definition of intimidation as something legally wrong.
You might not think that slavery and white supremacy are intimidating because of your privilege, but they are intimidating to people who have been the targets of both.
Then you gaslight anyone who says it's intimidation by diminishing their experience to say that they're "offended", not "intimidated", which is a really shitty thing only narcissists do.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello dukkha,
Um I would argue that we are not in the best shape in all parameters.
Yes, the rich are getting richer. That's good for them, but what about everybody else?
We have alarming high federal debt, climbing debt/GDP ratio, crumbling infrastructure, insufficient revenue, half the nation with virtually no wealth, and mediocre life expectancy.
We are faced with an existential threat in climate change and doing not enough to deal with it, and now we are unprepared for the coming pandemic. Racism and bitterness are at alarming levels, too. We are as politically divided as ever. Polarized is the word commonly used. Our education system is under performing compared to other nations, and our health care system is exclusive rather than comprehensive. Education debt is on it's way to be greater than mortgage debt.
This does not exactly sound great to me.
Um I would argue that we are not in the best shape in all parameters.
Yes, the rich are getting richer. That's good for them, but what about everybody else?
We have alarming high federal debt, climbing debt/GDP ratio, crumbling infrastructure, insufficient revenue, half the nation with virtually no wealth, and mediocre life expectancy.
We are faced with an existential threat in climate change and doing not enough to deal with it, and now we are unprepared for the coming pandemic. Racism and bitterness are at alarming levels, too. We are as politically divided as ever. Polarized is the word commonly used. Our education system is under performing compared to other nations, and our health care system is exclusive rather than comprehensive. Education debt is on it's way to be greater than mortgage debt.
This does not exactly sound great to me.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello dukkha,
Don't fool yourself.
America lags in upward mobility.
We are at class war.
Don't fool yourself.
America lags in upward mobility.
We are at class war.
Right. But they can articulate that intimidation and place it within the broader historical context. So it's not as simplistic as you're making it out to be.
Right, because you could just disingenuously claim you're intimidated, like you're doing for people who are suddenly intimidated by the rainbow flag, not because of anything anyone who ever waved it did, nor because of the historical context of it, but because of their own inherent biases and prejudices.
No one has ever used the Rainbow Flag to oppress or intimidate anyone, as far as I know.
I don't know what you're talking about here Flash because the intimidation articulated by the people experiencing it are always within the historical context of that flag itself.
You just don't listen to them, like you're not listening to me here, and you think ignoring them is a virtue.
Instead, you are trying to prove your perspective valid by gaslighting everyone else's. Like, if we don't see things your way then we're somehow victimizing you and your instincts. Again, this is narcissistic behavior that is completely expected from sociopaths.
I'm not pretending the Confederate Flag represents white supremacy and racism, or slavery, or sending people back to Africa; YOU LITERALLY SAID SO.
Of course it can...that's why it flew above state houses for decades. That's why they lined them all up adjacent to a polling station in NC last week. That's why Dylan Roof posed with it.
If the flag doesn't represent that, then from where did those white supremacists and racists ever get the idea it did?
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I say offended because they do not meet any criminal or civil definitions of intimidation that have a remedy. People might be "intimidated" by a flag or monument, but they can't be prohibited. You have to wait until local jurisdictions choose to remove them which they can never do with a flag or other symbol people choose to show voluntarily.
Calling people entitled, privileged, sophist, or narcissist are not arguments against the fact that Americans are free to wave flags or build monuments whenever they choose. This fact does not change regardless of my opinion on the topic. Our freedoms are protected against fascist state tactics and no juvenile personal attacks on me changes that reality.
We can't remove everything that makes a person feel intimidated. We do not have safe zones like some nanny colleges, this is the real world. You will get wiser as you mature and get over being so overly sensitive and thinking black people need your understanding to be successful and protected from flags. It is just white liberal guilt that creates your need for paternal control and thinking others just do not understand the issue.
Any message those things convey are not threats and thus not legally intimidation. Remember, we are protected by the 1st Amendment. And because a person says he is intimidated by something does not mean he can restrict their free expression.
Would your solution be to amend the 1st Amendment to prohibit any kind of speech you don't like? Hate speech, offensive speech, speech a person finds intimidating?
You would have been convicted for many posts you have made expressing these unacceptable views.
But they do, though. You even said yourself they do. So now you're going back on what you said before, aboiut what the flag represents, to say it now doesn't represent that because if it did, it would count as intimidation.
I would consider the message of "you should be a slave" as intimidating.
But you need it to be a mere "offense" because if you admitted it was intimidation, your entire argument falls apart.
And the New Black Panther Party members in Philadelphia. The difference is they made threats with a billy club.
Those flags never made a threat to anybody. Did anybody not vote because of those flags? You keep conveniently leaving out the "threat" element of intimidation because you know it destroys your argument.