Who can explain the logic of God?

[NiftyNiblick]

Who can explain the logic of an allegedly omniopotent and all-loving God creating a universe where,
looking at it from the human perspective alone,
such an incredibly tiny percentage of people live really well?

The very few who do live well must do so with the help of service industry people
obviously not living well because they work so hard for so little.

That's just humans. Forget about zebras and giraffes born to die in a lion's jaws.

I was raised as a lukewarm "wedding and funeral Catholic," and even that was long gone by puberty. Maturing minds learn to think, or they are supposed to, anyway.
And fundamentalist evangelicals make Catholics look almost sane (unless they're named Pat Buchanan or Rick Santorum).
I couldn't even imagine what that must be like.
How does one get through life totally devoid of logic?
And yet so many do. I can't imagine what it must be like to be inside their heads. Thank "God" for that.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Maybe the only "god" is life itself. The nature of life on this planet involves death so that others will get life. It involves evolution. It involves the innate knowledge to move from a poor area to a richer one. It involves some having advantages that allow them to have more resources than others, and to spread their genes forward. Darwin nailed it. It's nothing to do with some god directing stuff. It's just nature.

Nature... life... those are the true gods, if such deities exist.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

At my age, I understand one thing well, at least.

The process of dying can be very uncomfortable and even, in many cases, demeaning.
It's up to us to individually decide, when the time comes, if having lived was worth it.

But the one totally comforting thought is always there.
Being dead will be the easist thing that we were ever called upon to do, and that's what lasts the longest. Forever, in fact.

It must be like conking out listening to the Jazz Channel from my recliner,
and never having the Gestapo yelling at you to get up and make dinner!

It isn't horrible getting up to make dinner,
but it's not as nice as being asleep.

 

[Jack]

'God'. Answers the Questions that can't be answered.

'Where did we come from?'
'What's our Purpose?'
'What happens after we die?'

Every Culture around the world has 'Gods'.

--->Did God create Man ... did Man create God.

Who can explain the logic of an allegedly omniopotent and all-loving God creating a universe where,
looking at it from the human perspective alone,
such an incredibly tiny percentage of people live really well?

The very few who do live well must do so with the help of service industry people
obviously not living well because they work so hard for so little.

That's just humans. Forget about zebras and giraffes born to die in a lion's jaws.

I was raised as a lukewarm "wedding and funeral Catholic," and even that was long gone by puberty. Maturing minds learn to think, or they are supposed to, anyway.
And fundamentalist evangelicals make Catholics look almost sane (unless they're named Pat Buchanan or Rick Santorum).
I couldn't even imagine what that must be like.
How does one get through life totally devoid of logic?
And yet so many do. I can't imagine what it must be like to be inside their heads. Thank "God" for that.

 

[Jack]

Just for the Record ... I like the Sun God the best.

 

[Cypress]

Who can explain the logic of an allegedly omniopotent and all-loving God creating a universe where,
looking at it from the human perspective alone,
such an incredibly tiny percentage of people live really well?

The very few who do live well must do so with the help of service industry people
obviously not living well because they work so hard for so little.

That's just humans. Forget about zebras and giraffes born to die in a lion's jaws.

I was raised as a lukewarm "wedding and funeral Catholic," and even that was long gone by puberty. Maturing minds learn to think, or they are supposed to, anyway.
And fundamentalist evangelicals make Catholics look almost sane (unless they're named Pat Buchanan or Rick Santorum).
I couldn't even imagine what that must be like.
How does one get through life totally devoid of logic?
And yet so many do. I can't imagine what it must be like to be inside their heads. Thank "God" for that.

What do you mean by live really well? Like having a lot of money and material possessions?

Eastern Christianity is like east Asian religions of Buddhism, Daoism, Hinduism - it embraces mysticism, and does not enslave itself to logic.

The western christian religions tend to try to take a shot at reason: see Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine, et al

The longer I live, the more I realize there are serious limitations to human cognition and knowledge. Intellectuals as esteemed as Socrates, Voltaire, and Tolstoy all maintained that recognizing our ignorance and limitations is a form of wisdom.

As for getting smarter the more one rejects religion, there is a kernel of truth there. But the fact is, the most educated groups in America are not atheists or agnostics - they are Jews, Buddhists, and the mainline high Protestants.

On the flip side, the least educated Americans tend to be evangelicals, and other holy rollers:

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...ucated-Religious-Groups&p=2575568#post2575568

 

[NiftyNiblick]

The world is made of atoms. Matter. Living well means living materially well in such a world.

If an all-loving deity who is also omnipotent were to create a material world, one would think such deity would make it perfect for all involved.
That's obviously not what happened, and this is the primary basis for my atheism.

More importantly, though, I'm very comfortable with my view of random generation.
If it bothered me even a little, I'd probably maintain the kind of curiosity that more spiritually oriented people have.

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Quote Originally Posted by NiftyNiblick View Post
Who can explain the logic of an allegedly omniopotent and all-loving God creating a universe where,
looking at it from the human perspective alone,
such an incredibly tiny percentage of people live really well?

why do you assume that the tiny percentage of people you think "live really well" aren't the ones who are actually being punished......

 

[BidenPresident]

What do you mean by live really well? Like having a lot of money and material possessions?

I think he is referring to the problem of suffering. Why would an all powerful God allow there to be suffering?

 

[BartenderElite]

I think he is referring to the problem of suffering. Why would an all powerful God allow there to be suffering?

I think we tend to project our own human emotions & experiences onto God or whatever we believe in. I've always found the idea that a timeless being has a need to be worshipped to be a bit illogical, also. That's a very egotistical perspective.

I doubt we'd ever be able to relate to the motivations and "emotions" (if those exist) of a being that is timeless & omniscient.

 

[BidenPresident]

I think we tend to project our own human emotions & experiences onto God or whatever we believe in. I've always found the idea that a timeless being has a need to be worshipped to be a bit illogical, also. That's a very egotistical perspective.

I doubt we'd ever be able to relate to the motivations and "emotions" (if those exist) of a being that is timeless & omniscient.

Yes, I never understood why I was supposed to worship God. Seems pathetic.

 

[Jack]

The world is made of atoms. Matter. Living well means living materially well in such a world.

If an all-loving deity who is also omnipotent were to create a material world, one would think such deity would make it perfect for all involved.
That's obviously not what happened, and this is the primary basis for my atheism.

More importantly, though, I'm very comfortable with my view of random generation.
If it bothered me even a little, I'd probably maintain the kind of curiosity that more spiritually oriented people have.

I think of all the horrible, tortuous deaths that so many endured. Maybe God is a Sadist?

 

[Jack]

Yes, I never understood why I was supposed to worship God. Seems pathetic.

Burning in Hell for a few billion years will get your mind right.

 

[saltydancin]

I think he is referring to the problem of suffering. Why would an all powerful God allow there to be suffering?

While in this US Christian Nation with a Godvernment of suicidal "man is God" super egos functioning as "every form of tyranny over the mind of man" in their sociopsychopathilogical national religion reasoning based on a 600 + years after an Islam medical pseudoscience fabricated human reproduction virgin Mary misnomer immaculate son of Allah Jesus the Christ conception in maintaining Christiananlity pedophilia homicidal human farming federal lynching enforcement of "serve the Pope or die" in that Islam Christ existed before God "death to the infidels" crusade jihad as their "one nation under God with equal justice under law" interpretation of some people are born to suffer as the lucky ones....

 

[Ross Dolan]

All any of us can do is to make blind guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

Most make blind guesses about gods, no gods, afterlife, reward, punishment and all that kind of shit...and call those blind guesses "beliefs"...and often demand respect for those blind guesses because we have called them beliefs."

Seems to me that if one lives one's life as best one can...that "wins" (if there is such a thing).

Why make a big deal out of having to guess? In fact, why even bother to guess?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

I think he is referring to the problem of suffering. Why would an all powerful God allow there to be suffering?

he doesn't......he assigned you the job of stopping it.......

 

[Cypress]

I think he is referring to the problem of suffering. Why would an all powerful God allow there to be suffering?

That doesn't make sense, because this is what he actually wrote:

looking at it from the human perspective alone,
such an incredibly tiny percentage of people live really well?

The very few who do live well must do so with the help of service industry people
obviously not living well because they work so hard for so little.

That sounds like he is talking about the tiny fraction of , upper economic elites.

 

[Cypress]

he doesn't......he assigned you the job of stopping it.......

Dumb

 

[Cypress]

The world is made of atoms. Matter. Living well means living materially well in such a world.

If an all-loving deity who is also omnipotent were to create a material world, one would think such deity would make it perfect for all involved.

That's obviously not what happened, and this is the primary basis for my atheism.

More importantly, though, I'm very comfortable with my view of random generation.
If it bothered me even a little, I'd probably maintain the kind of curiosity that more spiritually oriented people have.

Your an atheist because the world is not perfect?

Okay, that's fine.

But I do not believe there is a major world religion on the planet that has an expectation the world should be perfect.

Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Daoism all strive to provide a framework to give meaning to a life in an imperfect world. Buddhism very specifically offers a way to escape the bondage of suffering and material desire.

The answer Saint Augustine gave is that humans were given freedom. We were imbued with freewill, and it is our corruption of free will that brings suffering into the world. Dostevsky maintains that God could have taken free will away from us and pre-ordained a perfect world...but then we wouldn't be free.

 

[Commander Dutch]

I think he is referring to the problem of suffering. Why would an all powerful God allow there to be suffering?

Atheists look at life as all there is therefore they look at suffering as forever. It's not. It's finite.

I compare it to kids in school; kids complain about the suffering of growing up and of being forced to go to school. Kids are taught, but it's important that they learn and "suffering" is a learning process. It doesn't do kids any good to just give them the answers, they must study and learn why those answers are correct. Growing up is hard and helicopter parents aren't helping their children.

Some kids, especially HS kids, harm each other over trivial shit because they believe HS life is the most important thing in the world. It's not. There's an entire life of 50-60 years that comes after High School where people have the opportunity to continue to grow and learn. Some don't. Some people are fucking morons. See the IQ Bell Curve.

While the Christian personal god doesn't hold water by the results, that doesn't negate the exist of an all powerful being uniting us all. Panentheism is within the Deist models of an all powerful force uniting everything.