Who's really responsible aside from the bleeping shooter?

gfm7175 said:
Fallacy Fallacy. I am not attempting to equate a house with a country. I am, rather, consistently extending the morality/legality of "it is wrong to trespass" from a micro scale into a macro scale. The point is that it doesn't matter in the slightest whether we are speaking of a house or of a country, trespassing is morally/legally wrong. If you don't want people invading into your house, then why do you want them invading into your country?


Yes, they are. They are both about trespassing. They are both about invasions.


Irrelevancies.


Inversion Fallacy.
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The only fallacies are on your part.

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Gonzomin said:
Who besides the shooter is responsible? The person who gave him or sold him the weapons and ammo. The politician who voted for keeping guns in the hands of unchecked people. The masses want background checks. They want people to be qualified to own a gun. The gun show loophole and all the people and politicians who allow it to exist. Throw in the NRA and the gun manufacturers who fight any laws that will make America safer because it cuts profits.
A crazy or ill person should not have access to a gun. Anyone who fights to allow him to have shared responsibility. That includes people who ignorantly claim the constitution permits anyone to own any weapon they want.
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We didn't have any significant number of mass shootings, other than by criminal gangs, for almost 200 years with virtually no gun control laws. Obviously, something besides access to guns is responsible and, equally obviously, the gun control laws that we've got haven't made things better and have probably made things worse.

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rjhenn said:
You continue with your complete lack of any arguments. And complete lack of any understanding of the issue.
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Do you leave your house door open for any "opportunity seeking" foreigner to enter, or do you lock it? Why is this?


We all know the answer is "no, I don't leave my house door open because I don't want foreigners to have a negative impact on my residence."

Why do you want to leave your country's door open? Why do you want foreigners to have a negative impact on your residence?
 
rjhenn said:
We didn't have any significant number of mass shootings, other than by criminal gangs, for almost 200 years with virtually no gun control laws. Obviously, something besides access to guns is responsible and, equally obviously, the gun control laws that we've got haven't made things better and have probably made things worse.

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We did not permit military weapons like ARs to be sold. The ban was in place from 1989 to 2004. We can see what happened since then.
 
gfm7175 said:
Do you leave your house door open for any "opportunity seeking" foreigner to enter, or do you lock it? Why is this?


We all know the answer is "no, I don't leave my house door open because I don't want foreigners to have a negative impact on my residence."

Why do you want to leave your country's door open? Why do you want foreigners to have a negative impact on your residence?
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Why do you assume that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country?

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Gonzomin said:
We did not permit military weapons like ARs to be sold. The ban was in place from 1989 to 2004. We can see what happened since then.
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ARs are not military weapons. There's no military in the world that issues ARs as combat weapons. That ban had no apparent effect on anything. And had no impact on the millions of such weapons already in civilian hands.

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Gonzomin said:
We did not permit military weapons like ARs to be sold. The ban was in place from 1989 to 2004. We can see what happened since then.
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We sure did permit military weapons to be sold. After WWII, you could buy a military surplus M-1 at a hardware store. I'll take an M-1 over an AK or AR any day of the week. Oh, and the M-1 is far more powerful than an AK or AR.
Didn't your "ban" just limit importation of foreign made military semi automatics? I'd take an American made military weapon over a foreign made one any day.
 
rjhenn said:
Why do you assume that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country?

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No one is saying ALL foreigners have a negative impact. Those who go through the legal process to become citizens are welcome. To say illegals don't have a negative impact on our country is ludicrous.
 
rjhenn said:
Why do you assume that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country?

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Why do you construct bigoted/racist models and then try to project them onto me as if they were my own models?
 
RB 60 said:
No one is saying ALL foreigners have a negative impact. Those who go through the legal process to become citizens are welcome. To say illegals don't have a negative impact on our country is ludicrous.
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Or simply reality.

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rjhenn said:
ARs are not military weapons. There's no military in the world that issues ARs as combat weapons. That ban had no apparent effect on anything. And had no impact on the millions of such weapons already in civilian hands.

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'LIKE'ARs. I was generic because rightys try to win by definition. The weapons we developed for the military are in the hands of yokels and drug gangs.

It is pasr time to show the carnage that guns do to people. TV should show the victims of gun shootings. this is no TV,it is reality and we are blowing kids apart. Let's allow Americans to have all the info before they decide.
 
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gfm7175 said:
No, I didn't. Stop lying.

YOU are the one who formed that model, NOT me...
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You said "Why do you want to leave your country's door open? Why do you want foreigners to have a negative impact on your residence?"

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Gonzomin said:
'LIKE'ARs. I was generic because rightys try to win by definition. The weapons we developed for the military are in the hands of yokels and drug gangs.

It is pasr time to show the carnage that guns do to people. TV should show the victims of gun shootings. this is no TV,it is reality and we are blowing kids apart. Let's allow Americans to have all the info before they decide.
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Purest paranoia. Drug gangs are a problem because of our stupid drug laws. We don't seem to have learned anything from the failure of Prohibition. You're advocating making an emotional response to the problem. That's likely to only make things worse. Guns are not the problem. But we're so obsessed with guns that no one's even looking for the real root causes.

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rjhenn said:
You said "Why do you want to leave your country's door open? Why do you want foreigners to have a negative impact on your residence?"

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Yes, that's what I asked. Then you took those words and formed the bigoted/racist "you assume that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country" model out of them, when that wasn't any part of my question.

You don't leave your house door open because you don't want any foreigners to have a negative impact on your residence. An example of such a "negative impact" would be thievery. You don't wish for these things on the micro level, so why do you wish for them on more macro levels?
 
gfm7175 said:
Yes, that's what I asked. Then you took those words and formed the bigoted/racist "you assume that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country" model out of them, when that wasn't any part of my question.

You don't leave your house door open because you don't want any foreigners to have a negative impact on your residence. An example of such a "negative impact" would be thievery. You don't wish for these things on the micro level, so why do you wish for them on more macro levels?
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Again, you're assuming that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country. Intruders into my house are unlikely to be there for anything except a negative impact. The same is not true of "foreigners" entering the country.

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rjhenn said:
Again, you're assuming that foreigners can only have a negative impact on the country.
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Projection. YOU are the one who created this model, NOT me. I have assumed no such thing. YOU are the one making this assumption.

rjhenn said:
Intruders into my house are unlikely to be there for anything except a negative impact. The same is not true of "foreigners" entering the country.
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Intruders into your house might just be "seeking opportunity", though... Why are you operating under the pretense that their intrusion is likely to have a negative impact?
 
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