StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
It also involves the seizing of private property, you rapscallion!
WHY AMERICA SHOULD ADOPT ARISTOCRACY AS ITS SYSTEM OF POLITICAL RULE
- Thread starter Dachshynddawg
- Start date
It also involves the seizing of private property, you rapscallion!
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
Because it is all about wealth inequality dolt.
But Marxism has specific ways to handle wealth inequality. Social Democrats believe wealth inequality is an issue, but we don't want to take away private property or nationalize the entire market.
Yes it does; it makes everyone miserable except those at the top. I do wish you weren't an uneducated hack.
That's because they are Fascistic hacks who dupe the ignorant in order to stay in power. They like uneducated fools like you.
They argue for that all the time you dumb hack. Why do you think they want to confiscate the wealth so that they can redistribute it to uneducated dunces who will vote for them?
Yes snowflake; it always starts out that way......and ends with everyone being miserable and losing their liberty. If you read some history, you wouldn't sound so ignorant.
StoneByStone
It's OK to Be White
#spergingout
Iolo/Penderyn
Verified User
Only in the sense that Hitler did, I think. What in terms of actual legislation has Trump done to help working people?
Iolo/Penderyn
Verified User
Thanks. I'm no great admirer of Tacitus (or indeed of any Romans), but I go regularly to a Latin class to keep up my grasp of the language. I prefer Greek, but that group is run by a classics graduate who spent his working life in business and can't wait to get back to Socratic Athens at a gallop. I'm no great believer in Celts -it's merely a linguistic term in my book, or in Tacitus's observations (he thought the people living in what is now Scotland were clearly Germans, as I recollect, because they were tall and had red hair). I bought Oppenheimer's book a good few years back and found what he said convincing. Is it still accepted? As to the Silurian social structure, peoples change, and we've got into much more proletarian habits since then, though we can still be quite formidable (the Merthyr Rising and the March on Newport are worth reading up). The first great leader of the South Wales Miners' Federation and first trade union MP used the bardic name Mabon from Mabon ap Modron, and the man who created the NHS was called after an early British poet, Aneurin. Things move on. Anyway, good to see someone still into the classics! Hwyl/Vale.I think Tacitus is a very reliable (usually) and intelligent historian, so I'll try to respond to your post using his account of the issues at hand whenever possible; (which also means that you can check what is stated for yourself, as his historical texts are easy to access free of charge on -line).
As to the Iron Age Silurean phenoype in Roman Britain, Tacitus writes...
"The swarthy faces of the Silures, the curly quality, in general, of their hair, and the position of Spain opposite their shores (in what is now called South East Wales), attest to the passage of Iberians in the old days and the occupation by them of these districts." (Tacitus Annals, Xi.ii).
Also, Jordenes, a Gothic 6th - century Eastern Roman bureaucrat who later became an historian wrote in his text, "The Origins and Deeds of the Goths", that...
"The Silures have swarthy features and are usually born with curly, black hair...They are like the Gauls or the Spaniards."
It's worth noting that Tactitus' hypothesis regarding the Spanish (Basque) ancestry of the Silures is, in fact, supported by some modern-era, mainstream, genetic science. In 2006, a research investigation team in the UK, for example, found that 81% of the genetic makeup of the Welsh people, - from the Y chromosome point of view -, comes from the Basque people. The lead scientist on this team was, BTW, Professor Stephen Oppenheimer who was based at Oxford University is a highly respected member of the scientific community. There are quite a few other studies as well that have drawn a similar" conclusion as Oppenheimer regarding the Basque genetics of the ancient Silure people . So you might be right in saying the Silures "were Basque.", or at least predominantly Basque (genetically speaking) as there naturally would have been some degree of inter-breeding between the Siler folk and other non - Silure Celts in Britain by the time the Romans arrived,
As my OP was to do with the issue of aristocracy, you might be interested to know - (if you do not know already) - that the Silures of Iron Age Roman Britain had put in place a strictly hierarchal social system that was centred on elite aristocracies. Each of the various Silurean settlement groups that were located in what we now call South Each Wales, (in particular: Glamorgan; Gwent and Monmouthshire on the North shore of the Bristol Channel), had its own aristocratic ruling class. These elite ruling classes took responsibility for providing their respective settlements' populations with the resources needed for their day-to-day and long-term welfare.Moreover, the elite Silurean ruling classes were warrior aristocracies similar to those that were characteristic of the neolithic/Bronz Ages Indo-European ethnic groups like the Yamnaya people and the related "Battle - Axe Culture" of Scandinavia, both which also structured their societies on warrior aristocracies. So, the life-style of the upper classes in Silurean society was strongly linked to battle/military prowess and the various appurtenances of warfare such as horses, chariots, weapons (spears, daggers, axes, shields etc) and other combat-related objects. Archaeologists have excavated gold and silver daggers and battle helmets, harness mounts from first century Silurean settlements along with bridle bits harnesses and other cavalry -related items that were lavishly adorned with opulent decorations and high-quality enamelling. These kind of objects were obviously not intended for use in actual battles, but probably played an important role in rituals and ceremonies or were worn/used by members of the Silures' aristocratic classes as status symbols. In real battle, the Silure warriors adopted the practice of painting anything that had military associations (chariots, horses, bridles, harnesses, etc.) in a blood red enamel; they are even said to have painted their own bodies red before going into battle.
When you say that the Romans vowed to exterminate the Silure people, I think you are referring to an announcement that is believed to have been made by the Roman governor, Publius Ostorius Scapula. (Ostorius was appointed second Govenor of Roman Britain by the Emperor Claudius and arrived in Britain around 48 AD). According to Tacitus, Ostorius publicly announced that the Silures were such a danger that he would exterminate them. This is probably true as the Silure people had been causing a lot of trouble for the Ostorius and the Romans in Britain. It seems that Ostorius had exercised poor political judgement in issuing his threat to annihilate the Silures, because rather than intimidating them into passivity or reducing or ceasing their provocations and attacks against the Romans, Ostorius' threat seems to have driven them into a desperate, frenzy of violence. Ostorius' threat, turned out to be a bad error of political judgement, that back-fired severely. It probably explains why in 51 AD, Silurean warriors surrounded and attacked a Roman legionary force (a Roman Legion consisted of about 5,000 troops) who were occupied in building forts in Silure territory. The Legion were ultimately rescued but only with great difficulty and a considerable loss of men. Tacitus wrote of the attack that...
"...the camp Prefect, with eight Centurions, and the bravest of soldiers were slain; and shortly afterwards, a foraging party of our men, with some cavalry squadrons sent to their support was utterly routed."
After this the Silure folk were further galvanised and they began taking Roman prisoners as hostages, distributing them among neighbouring tribes. The overall result of Ostorius' threat to exterminate the Silures had ultimately resulted in precisely what he wanted to prevent - a consolidation of Silurean warriors from different tribes into a new unified. resistance movement.
Anyway, a year later, in 52 AD, Ostorius died suddenly supposedly "worn out with care" according to Tacitus. (After what he'd been through battling the Silures and other Celtic tribes since his arrival in 47 AD I'm not surprised ![/I]
Ostorius was replaced, first by Aulus Didius Gallus, Aulus was then eventually replaced by Quintas Veranius, and after Quintas, Suetonius Paulinus took over the leadership of the Romans in Britain. By the time Suetonius died, 25 years had passed since Ostorius' death in 52 AD and the Silures had still not been conquered by the Romans. After Suetonius, General Julius Sextus Frontinus was put in charge by the Emperor Titus, as Governor of Roman Britain, and finally in 79 AD there was a breakthrough. Frontinus engaged the Silures in a major battles and it is not known whether he defeated them or if the Silures decided to cease fighting and instead work with the Romans. The only brief record of events that exists is from Tacitus who wrote that "In 79 AD Frontinus succeeded and at last subdued the strong and warlike nation of the Silures."
At the end of the war with the Silure tribes in 79 AD ,the Romans "forcibly transferred" the Silures at the hillfort of Llanmelin one mile to the south into a new Roman-styled town they had established in 75 AD this town was called Venta Silurum (or Caerwent). Venta Silurum covered 44 acres and eventually became the largest administration centre of the civilian population of Wales. The Romans were a very civilised people and almost always dealt moderately with the people that they conquered, thus the Silures were allowed to retain their political identity. I think, as well, that the Romans, who placed a high value on military prowess, had a genuine respect for the Silures' fierce determination and courageous conduct on the battlefield. There is evidence of this you can see today at Caerwent in the form of the "Civitas Silurum Stone" which was excavated about 100 years ago ( I think ?). The stone is dated 220 AD and its inscriptions confirm the existence of the Silure people as a "self-governing" body; in fact, the Silures became the only known self-governing body in Roman Wales. I have not visited Caerwent yet, but I would love to. I have read a lot about what has been excavated and it sounds amazing.
I guess it's fair to say, as you do, that Caerwent was the Silures' "old capital. But remember that Caerwent or Venta Silurum was very much a Roman town, with Roman-style houses, shops, baths, mosaic floors, basilica, heating systems, massive 5- metre- tall stone walls surrounding the town and so on. Before they moved to live in Caerwent, the Silure tribes lived on settlements where the standard domicile was a roundhouse, two of them were unearthed on a farmstead in Anglesey and have been reconstructed for display. If you go to St Fagan's National Museum of History (which is located on the outskirts of Cardiff) you can see them for yourself. These Silurean roundhouses are made of timber and clay, they have no windows, so they were very dark inside. What little light did illuminate their interiors came through the doorway or from the fireplace that was built into the centre of the building. They had cone-shaped thatched roofs.
Finally, on a political note (as this is a political forum) if you are proud of your Silure ancestry (and you obviously are) remember that the Silure people were very much Iron Age versions of "High King and Country" Tories ! They favoured a strictly hierarchical class structure with a ruling class "warrior" aristocracy at the top, they were extremely stubborn and self- righteous, intolerant, self-righteous and bellicose, patriarchal/patrilinial, and grounded their societies on the nuclear family.They were not Social Justice Warriors and I do not think they would be impressed with LGBTQI activists or multiculturalism or affirmative action or feminism or promoting diversity, Postmoderist ideology or the "Green New Deal". They would certainly think the modern British Labour Party were crazy and would probably probably put a Marxist socialist like Jeremy Corbyn to the sword on the spot. Alternatively, the Silure folk would have loved Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher (even though she was a woman !) and Ronald Reagan and ESPECIALLY Donald Trump !Think about that next time you vote - don't betray your Silure blood !
Dachshund
Dachshynddawg
Verified User
As to Stephen Oppenheimer, he was at his peak in the mid 2000s, the research he did demonstrating a strong Basque genetic inheritance in the Silures was published in 2006, I think. Since then genetic science/technology has advanced at an exponential rate. To be honest, I am simply unable to make sense of most modern scientific papers dealing with the genomics/genetics of ancient tribes of people, as the content is too technical for me and often requires knowledge of statistical methods I have not ever learned. It seems that the more modern geneticists are able to learn about samples of DNA from bones excavated from ancient burial sites, in say, Roman Britain, the more complex and ambiguous everything becomes. NO sooner is one paper published in the literature, another will appear in 6 months time saying it conclusions are not correct. So, to answer your question about Oppenheimer, no, his research findings and conclusions are not accepted by the scientific community in 2020.
My own knowledge of Welsh people comes from my trips to Wales (Swansea and Newport mostly where I have spent quite a bit of time) to catch up with my wife's mother's relatives. My wife was born in England, but her mother was born Swansea where she was brought up in a family of 7 siblings. My impression of the Welsh people I have met and seen is that they are very tough, in the sense of having a stoic - type philosophy, which I find admirable. Also, they have great singing voices (e.g. Tom Jones the pop idol was Welsh as you can tell from his name). I was born in the USA, but grew up in Australia in Northern Queensland and consequently I have a very strong "strine" accent. I have a fond recollection of walking into a suburban pub in Swansea by myself one night and chatting with a local about Australia. Later that evening a group of about 10 Welsh guys got up and started sing. It was fabulous (!); because I was a stranger and they all knew I was Australia, they dedicated a rendition of "Wild Colonial Boy" to me. I was chuffed. I think my favourite Welshman would have to be the late Sir Harry Secombe (or "Sir Circumference" as he called himself wrt to his rather large girth). His performances in "The Goon Show" were absolutely brilliant - soooo funny; also, he had a tremendous singing voice.
Good luck with your Latin studies; they say learning Latin teaches you to think more logically, also, you will eventually be able to read the original, untranslated texts of great writers like Cicero and Tacitus - you might get to like the Romans after all !
Dachshund