Why homosexuality should be banned

  • Thread starter Thread starter WinterBorn
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PostmodernProphet said:
again, no changes in law are involved.....a Wiccan man and a Wiccan woman are simply marrying.....the law doesn't require, acknowledge, or recognize their method or Christian's methods of marrying....
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In order for the marriage to be valid, you need two things:

#1 - A marriage licence
#2 - To be married by someone who has been given the authority to do so.


If a satanist gets married, the priest of priestess who performs the ceremony must have been given the authority by some gov't entity. And they must have recognized them.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
not until you tell me why you think the definition of marriage has to be found in the Constitution?.....I consider the question to be irrelevant.....no changes in the Constitution are necessary to prevent gay marriage....the only changes in the Constitution considered were to change the full faith and credit provisions so that if Massachusetts approved gay marriage, the rest of the country wasn't stuck recognizing them.....
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then tell me why california had to change their constitution....why have other states gone and changed/amended their constitution to forbid gay marriage?

if the definition existed, which you still can't provide, there would be no need to change any state or federal constitution(s).....

just admit it, you can't provide me with a definition....and thats why you consider irrelevent, when you get stuck, you all of a sudden find it irrelevent...how convenient for you

and why is the federal constitution important....good lord, this is exactly why i keep telling you that loving v. virginia is important and that it will and does apply to gay marriage. states said blacks and whites couldn't marry, thus, the very definition of marriage was only between those of the same race, that definition had to change.
 
WinterBorn said:
But the point is, you do not have to accept wicca just because the gov't considers their marriage valid.
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point fails...a man and a woman walk into the court house and get a marriage license.....I have no knowledge of whether they are Wiccan, atheists or Christians....the government/we do not participate in their choice of wedding ceremonies.....the government/we do not 'accept' anything about their religion....

demanding that we change laws to permit a gay marriage DOES demand the government/we 'accept' their choices....
 
WinterBorn said:
They certainly did. In order to be recognized by the US Military, have sections in the chaplains training materials, and be recognized by the IRS and other gov't agencies, they must request gov't recognition and sanction.

All of this has already happened, and it did not effect you.
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please provide a quote from the chaplain's training manual that demonstrates there is a government approved ceremony for conducting Satanic marriages.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
point fails...a man and a woman walk into the court house and get a marriage license.....I have no knowledge of whether they are Wiccan, atheists or Christians....the government/we do not participate in their choice of wedding ceremonies.....the government/we do not 'accept' anything about their religion....

demanding that we change laws to permit a gay marriage DOES demand the government/we 'accept' their choices....
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When they purchase the marriage licence, are they then married? Is the purchase of the licence the same as getting married?
 
WinterBorn said:
In order for the marriage to be valid, you need two things:

#1 - A marriage licence
#2 - To be married by someone who has been given the authority to do so.


If a satanist gets married, the priest of priestess who performs the ceremony must have been given the authority by some gov't entity. And they must have recognized them.
Click to expand...

anyone who can show they are an ordained member of an organized religion can obtain the authority from the state government (not federal)....in most states that permits them to conduct marriages.....the state does not engage in overseeing what ceremonies are conducted....I suspect that in at least California you can find a Jedi preacher to conduct a Jedi marriage, but again....the state does not determine what type of ceremony you have......a Scientologist could hire a rabbi to conduct a Wiccan ceremony (assuming that such willing participants could be found) and the state has no knowledge of it......

besides, keep in mind you are moving into the realm of freedom of religion....perhaps your solution could be found in creating the religion of Gayosity......then you enter a completely different body of laws.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
please provide a quote from the chaplain's training manual that demonstrates there is a government approved ceremony for conducting Satanic marriages.......
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I did not say that the chaplains conduct marriages in the Church of Satan. They are not ordained priests in that religious organization.
 
Yurt said:
then tell me why california had to change their constitution....why have other states gone and changed/amended their constitution to forbid gay marriage?

if the definition existed, which you still can't provide, there would be no need to change any state or federal constitution(s).....

just admit it, you can't provide me with a definition....and thats why you consider irrelevent, when you get stuck, you all of a sudden find it irrelevent...how convenient for you

and why is the federal constitution important....good lord, this is exactly why i keep telling you that loving v. virginia is important and that it will and does apply to gay marriage. states said blacks and whites couldn't marry, thus, the very definition of marriage was only between those of the same race, that definition had to change.
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PostmodernProphet said:
point fails...a man and a woman walk into the court house and get a marriage license.....I have no knowledge of whether they are Wiccan, atheists or Christians....the government/we do not participate in their choice of wedding ceremonies.....the government/we do not 'accept' anything about their religion....

demanding that we change laws to permit a gay marriage DOES demand the government/we 'accept' their choices....
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again....what laws?
 
WinterBorn said:
When they purchase the marriage licence, are they then married? Is the purchase of the licence the same as getting married?
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no, a the minister that conducts the ceremony has to sign the license before it is recorded with the county......it doesn't say "a Wiccan ceremony was held", it just has a place for the signature of the minister who performed the marriage.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
anyone who can show they are an ordained member of an organized religion can obtain the authority from the state government (not federal)....in most states that permits them to conduct marriages.....the state does not engage in overseeing what ceremonies are conducted....I suspect that in at least California you can find a Jedi preacher to conduct a Jedi marriage, but again....the state does not determine what type of ceremony you have......a Scientologist could hire a rabbi to conduct a Wiccan ceremony (assuming that such willing participants could be found) and the state has no knowledge of it......

besides, keep in mind you are moving into the realm of freedom of religion....perhaps your solution could be found in creating the religion of Gayosity......then you enter a completely different body of laws.....
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But there must either be a Justice of the Peace or a religious clergyman to sign the licence.

So in order for the marriage to be valid, it must be signed by an ordained member of a religion. The gov't recognizes religions that you do not accept. Does this harm your religious worship or belief?

It is the same with gay marriage.

You do not consider satanism as "normal". But the federal gov't recognizes them as a religion without prejudice.

You do not consider homosexuality to be "normal". But the gov't recognizing their marriage would not effect your marriage or the institution of marriage any more than a satanic wedding would.
 
WinterBorn said:
But there must either be a Justice of the Peace or a religious clergyman to sign the licence.

So in order for the marriage to be valid, it must be signed by an ordained member of a religion. The gov't recognizes religions that you do not accept. Does this harm your religious worship or belief?

It is the same with gay marriage.

You do not consider satanism as "normal". But the federal gov't recognizes them as a religion without prejudice.

You do not consider homosexuality to be "normal". But the gov't recognizing their marriage would not effect your marriage or the institution of marriage any more than a satanic wedding would.
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freedom of religion.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no, a the minister that conducts the ceremony has to sign the license before it is recorded with the county......it doesn't say "a Wiccan ceremony was held", it just has a place for the signature of the minister who performed the marriage.....
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And they must be ordained in a religion that is recognized by the gov't.

You can't just sign it and say "Earl's Blessed Church"
 
PMP, do you accept the Church of Satan as normal?

No, you have said as much.

And yet, two satanists being married by a satanic priest is accepted by the gov't. It does not force you to accept it.


Convicted murderers can marry, and you obviously do not hold much respect for, or accept, murderers. But the gov't accepts the marriage. It does not force you to accept murderers.
 
WinterBorn said:
And they must be ordained in a religion that is recognized by the gov't.

You can't just sign it and say "Earl's Blessed Church"
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perhaps in California.....they are quite flexible in what they permit as a "church".....of course they would have to be ordained in "Earl's Blessed Church".....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
do Satanists have "counselling"?....."Yes, I realize you haven't tortured anyone today, but cheer up, there's always tomorrow".......
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They train the chaplains to counsel soldiers. The oversimplification notwithstanding, satanists do not torture and have the same reactions to combat and other military issues that other people do.
 
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