Publius
Well-known member
Clearly, Republicans can't stand democracy. This is why they are going around making the bogus argument that 'America is not a democracy'.
Because they need to feel good about having only won the popular vote only twice in over 30 years, and they need to feel good about
their voter suppression laws which they have enacted in a number of red states. If someone on the left points this out to them, they will say, 'Well, America is not q democracy, anyway' and shrug their shoulders.
And they harangue the left about 'propaganda', but this 'America is not a Democracy' meme is pure propaganda to further a right wing hate democracy narrative. Because who is going around making this claim? It's the right. It sure as hell is not democrats. Oh, sure, some will argue that there isn't much democracy, that politicians are bought by rich people, and yes, there's an argument for that, but we're talking about principles, not practical realities.
This is the method of fascism, that of demagogues who are telling you this, telling you that the press is the enemy, and anything critical of Trump is TDS, etc.
Trump and his surrogates are the shining example of propaganda masters, filling the minds of their flock with thought-terminating cliches and lies. It's Orwellian.
A democracy is a nation of elected leaders.
A republic is a nation of EITHER appointed or elected leaders (as opposed to a monarchy).
The ONLY time a republic is NOT a democracy is when the leaders of that republic are appointed, as opposed to elected.
Also, in America, the president is chosen by electors, but the electors are elected, so that is an indirect democracy. But, all other elections other than that for the presidential ticket, are by direct vote.
Republic is the broader term. It is the term of documents and formal declarations. "Democracy' is a broad term, but narrower, actually, than 'Republic'. The terms overlap, but they are not mutually exclusive.
It doesn't matter what kind of democracy, representative, direct, whatever --- the point is that where people vote for representatives and leaders, it is a democracy, period. It is also a Republic.
www.britannica.com
And we have Madison's view on majority rule:
But not to Republicans, this is why they hate democracy, because when democracy flourishes, they tend to lose. Not all of the time, but much of the time, which is why they gerrymander (far more than Dems have), limit voter access, limit ballot boxes, purge voter registration rolls far in excess of what is just and fair, place more and more hurdles between the voter and the ballot. They believe that they do better when the voter base shrinks. That's what it sure seems like to me, based on history.
They pay lip service to the 'free market', but with one exception, the free market of ideas, the don't like a free market there, they do everything they can to limit it by placing hurdles between the voter and the ballot.
In a democracy, those whose ideas are in accord with the people, usually win. Or it should.
We have direct democracy for
Governors and Lt Governors.
State Attorneys General
District Attorneys
Judgeships
Sheriffs
Mayors and municipal officers.
State and federal legislative representatives.
Ballot initiatives.
Hundreds of elections every year across America and the only election where there is indirect democracy are two:
the Prez/VP
and most laws where representatives are elected to vote for those laws on our behalf.
But we do have ballot initiatives.
MOST Elections in America are DIRECT.
We are a democracy.
AND we are a Republic. These terms are NOT mutually exclusive. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to you.
NOWHERE in the Federalist papers do Mssrs Madison and Hamilton advocate 'minority rule', though they wanted to temper the tendency of democracies to vote for faction leaders and demagogues. What they did was create a system that tempers the excesses of majority rule by creating a bicameral legislature, and an electoral college. The point is, they absolutely meant that America, when she votes, the majority is supposed to be the victor. From 1788 and for the next two centuries, 222 years, up until 1999, the popular vote didn't align with the electoral college only three times, that is 5.5% of the time, and by evidence of that mere fact, we can safely presume that, since, given the EC, it would be impossible to prevent the misalignment permanently, they tried to keep it's occurrence to a minimum. Yes, from 2000 up to 2024, it's happened 3 times in 24 years, which is evidence that it's occurrence has increased 500%, which far more than the framers ever wanted it to occur given that it only occurred 3 times in 222 years in the centuries prior. .
"... that fundamental maxim of republican government, which requires that the sense of the majority should prevail. " Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 22.
No, the term 'democracy' is not in the Declaration of Independence.
Nor is it in the Constitution.
But nor is the phrase 'beautiful country'.
Does that mean that America is not a beautiful country?
And Democracy is not in the famous Pledge of Allegiance.
And 'beautiful country' is also not in the pledge.
But does that mean AMerica is not a beautiful country?
No. .
I mention this because Republican's incessantly make the bogus argument that since it's not in the DoI nor the Pledge, therefore, it's not a democracy.
'Democracy' is a broad term, it is poetic, descriptive and the logic used by morons like Mark Levin who declare that because it's not in the Declaration of Independence, America is therefore 'not a democracy' is, writ large, a specious argument.
When i say 'broad' i mean yes, there is a narrow use of the Term, as it was used by Madison, noting that Madison's contemporaries did not agree with his parochial use of the term (source: Encyclopedia Britannica )
https://www.britannica.com/topic/democracy/Democracy-or-republic
Even among his contemporaries, Madison’s refusal to apply the term democracy to representative governments, even those based on broad electorates, was aberrant.
[...]
When the members of the United States Constitutional Convention met in 1787, terminology was still unsettled. Not only were democracy and republic used more or less interchangeably in the colonies, but no established term existed for a representative government “by the people.”
Sorry, republicans, America IS a democracy,. and the terms 'Constitutional Republic' and 'Representative Democracy are not mutually exclusive terms.
Because they need to feel good about having only won the popular vote only twice in over 30 years, and they need to feel good about
their voter suppression laws which they have enacted in a number of red states. If someone on the left points this out to them, they will say, 'Well, America is not q democracy, anyway' and shrug their shoulders.
And they harangue the left about 'propaganda', but this 'America is not a Democracy' meme is pure propaganda to further a right wing hate democracy narrative. Because who is going around making this claim? It's the right. It sure as hell is not democrats. Oh, sure, some will argue that there isn't much democracy, that politicians are bought by rich people, and yes, there's an argument for that, but we're talking about principles, not practical realities.
This is the method of fascism, that of demagogues who are telling you this, telling you that the press is the enemy, and anything critical of Trump is TDS, etc.
Trump and his surrogates are the shining example of propaganda masters, filling the minds of their flock with thought-terminating cliches and lies. It's Orwellian.
A democracy is a nation of elected leaders.
A republic is a nation of EITHER appointed or elected leaders (as opposed to a monarchy).
The ONLY time a republic is NOT a democracy is when the leaders of that republic are appointed, as opposed to elected.
Also, in America, the president is chosen by electors, but the electors are elected, so that is an indirect democracy. But, all other elections other than that for the presidential ticket, are by direct vote.
Republic is the broader term. It is the term of documents and formal declarations. "Democracy' is a broad term, but narrower, actually, than 'Republic'. The terms overlap, but they are not mutually exclusive.
It doesn't matter what kind of democracy, representative, direct, whatever --- the point is that where people vote for representatives and leaders, it is a democracy, period. It is also a Republic.
Democracy or Republic: What's the difference?
Is the United States a democracy or a republic? This is one of those “either/or” questions that seems like it should have a straightforward answer; after all, two such different words must have two different definitions, right?
The short answer is that democracy and republic are frequently used to mean the same thing: a government in which the people vote for their leaders. This was the important distinction at the time of the founding of the United States, in direct contrast with the rule of a king, or monarchy, in Great Britain. In part because that context was clear to everyone involved in the American Revolution, these terms were used interchangeably in the late 1700s. Both democracy and republic meant that the power to govern was held by the people rather than a monarch.
Democracy - Factions, Parties, Politics | Britannica
Democracy - Factions, Parties, Politics: In many of the city-state democracies and republics, part of the answer to question 3—What political institutions are necessary for governing?—consisted of “factions,” including both informal groups and organized political parties. Much later...
www.britannica.com
the vital principle of republican governments is the lex majoris partis, the will of the majority
But not to Republicans, this is why they hate democracy, because when democracy flourishes, they tend to lose. Not all of the time, but much of the time, which is why they gerrymander (far more than Dems have), limit voter access, limit ballot boxes, purge voter registration rolls far in excess of what is just and fair, place more and more hurdles between the voter and the ballot. They believe that they do better when the voter base shrinks. That's what it sure seems like to me, based on history.
They pay lip service to the 'free market', but with one exception, the free market of ideas, the don't like a free market there, they do everything they can to limit it by placing hurdles between the voter and the ballot.
In a democracy, those whose ideas are in accord with the people, usually win. Or it should.
We have direct democracy for
Governors and Lt Governors.
State Attorneys General
District Attorneys
Judgeships
Sheriffs
Mayors and municipal officers.
State and federal legislative representatives.
Ballot initiatives.
Hundreds of elections every year across America and the only election where there is indirect democracy are two:
the Prez/VP
and most laws where representatives are elected to vote for those laws on our behalf.
But we do have ballot initiatives.
MOST Elections in America are DIRECT.
We are a democracy.
AND we are a Republic. These terms are NOT mutually exclusive. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to you.
NOWHERE in the Federalist papers do Mssrs Madison and Hamilton advocate 'minority rule', though they wanted to temper the tendency of democracies to vote for faction leaders and demagogues. What they did was create a system that tempers the excesses of majority rule by creating a bicameral legislature, and an electoral college. The point is, they absolutely meant that America, when she votes, the majority is supposed to be the victor. From 1788 and for the next two centuries, 222 years, up until 1999, the popular vote didn't align with the electoral college only three times, that is 5.5% of the time, and by evidence of that mere fact, we can safely presume that, since, given the EC, it would be impossible to prevent the misalignment permanently, they tried to keep it's occurrence to a minimum. Yes, from 2000 up to 2024, it's happened 3 times in 24 years, which is evidence that it's occurrence has increased 500%, which far more than the framers ever wanted it to occur given that it only occurred 3 times in 222 years in the centuries prior. .
"... that fundamental maxim of republican government, which requires that the sense of the majority should prevail. " Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 22.
No, the term 'democracy' is not in the Declaration of Independence.
Nor is it in the Constitution.
But nor is the phrase 'beautiful country'.
Does that mean that America is not a beautiful country?
And Democracy is not in the famous Pledge of Allegiance.
And 'beautiful country' is also not in the pledge.
But does that mean AMerica is not a beautiful country?
No. .
I mention this because Republican's incessantly make the bogus argument that since it's not in the DoI nor the Pledge, therefore, it's not a democracy.
'Democracy' is a broad term, it is poetic, descriptive and the logic used by morons like Mark Levin who declare that because it's not in the Declaration of Independence, America is therefore 'not a democracy' is, writ large, a specious argument.
When i say 'broad' i mean yes, there is a narrow use of the Term, as it was used by Madison, noting that Madison's contemporaries did not agree with his parochial use of the term (source: Encyclopedia Britannica )
https://www.britannica.com/topic/democracy/Democracy-or-republic
Even among his contemporaries, Madison’s refusal to apply the term democracy to representative governments, even those based on broad electorates, was aberrant.
[...]
When the members of the United States Constitutional Convention met in 1787, terminology was still unsettled. Not only were democracy and republic used more or less interchangeably in the colonies, but no established term existed for a representative government “by the people.”
Sorry, republicans, America IS a democracy,. and the terms 'Constitutional Republic' and 'Representative Democracy are not mutually exclusive terms.
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