Why we need less college and more reality?

Boris The Animal said:
This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?
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College is needed for professional fields, but not simple fields that just require tutelage in processes, like driving a vehicle, working a machine. You get higher paying jobs, with college, and can work up the ladders. Without college, your chances of working up any ladders is slim.
 
domer76 said:
That’s because they can pick and choose whom they admit, Kramden. However, in my state, the top performing high school is a public high school. In a conservative state, that particular school district is probably the most liberal area in the entire state.

That really fucks with your theory, doesn’t it, Kramden?
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I wish there were a free market, so we could test your theory. I think the competition, lack of regulations, and having more to spend on your children's education because you were no longer taxed for it, would necessarily leave any government school in its dust.
 
Apple Lung-Li-Chiao said:
College is needed for professional fields, but not simple fields that just require tutelage in processes, like driving a vehicle, working a machine. You get higher paying jobs, with college, and can work up the ladders. Without college, your chances of working up any ladders is slim.
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Not always. Building trades typically outpace degreed positions. And without the Leftist indoctrination and tens of thousands of dollars in college debt.
 
Apple Lung-Li-Chiao said:
College is needed for professional fields, but not simple fields that just require tutelage in processes, like driving a vehicle, working a machine. You get higher paying jobs, with college, and can work up the ladders. Without college, your chances of working up any ladders is slim.
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WTF do you know about work?
 
Anarchon said:
I wish there were a free market, so we could test your theory. I think the competition, lack of regulations, and having more to spend on your children's education because you were no longer taxed for it, would necessarily leave any government school in its dust.
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Yeah, starve the beast. A typical RW tactic.
 
Fentoine Lum said:
Why we need less college and more reality?

Clear coherent educated hominids are a clear and present danger to the Reich wing power structure.
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Tell me about the average 85 IQ blacks that the left constantly panders to in order to keep them on the Democrat plantation.
 
Boris The Animal said:
This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?
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Your Choice ... ;)
 
Recognizing the need for more vocational training is legitimate but doesn't require disparaging college degrees.

Not necessarily relating this to the original post,
but there exists among trumpanzees such a profound inferiority complex
that they've cultivated a strong, albeit irrational, anti-intellectual attitude.

Intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom are three distinctively different things.
College is about knowledge, and knowledge is always good.

Stupidity, ignorance, and poor judgment are three distinctively different things,
College mitigates ignorance, and ignorance is never good.
 
Boris The Animal said:
This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?
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The IBEW is advertising heavily here right now. They're offering education, certification and work immediately and it's working. The skilled trades are a great option for a lot of kids...I don't know if other places are doing this but Detroit is and I hope it's widespread.
 
Boris The Animal said:
This is a subject I've discussed before with several of my FB friends. My current occupation with the NFTA has me convinced more than ever that vocational/ trades careers are not being emphasized enough in the schools because in my opinion it's always "college this and college that". Has been since even before I was a senior some 32 years ago. And that is doing a disservice to our people. No wonder why the building trades are in such high demand right now-shortage of new apprentices to bring up in the ranks. NFTA is experiencing a driver shortage, as is all student, transit, and motorcoach companies/agencies. For example, even with my class and the next two classes behind me, there won't be enough drivers to cover the extra board for very long. Again, if a 19-21 year old has his/her license, that person can easily turn a 35-40 year career and not be saddled with tens of thousands of dollars in college loan debt and a worthless degree. I'm not knocking college, there are fields that require a degree, but why push it as the end all to a better life?
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People tend to make a false dichotomy out of this issue. We need to improve both and it's not like we can only have one or the other. Or that we have to promote college over vocational training. Both alternatives should be available and be of the best quality.

Having said that not everyone is either college material or capable of mastering a trade. Both are great, we need both but it's not a panacea. There will always be people at the low end of the IQ scale that finding useful work for will often be counter productive. The notion that there is something productive for everyone to do is erroneous. There will always be the Grind's of this world that are just not capable of doing productive work.

That's an unfortunate reality that has to be faced and managed.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
People tend to make a false dichotomy out of this issue. We need to improve both and it's not like we can only have one or the other. Or that we have to promote college over vocational training. Both alternatives should be available and be of the best quality.

Having said that not everyone is either college material or capable of mastering a trade. Both are great, we need both but it's not a panacea. There will always be people at the low end of the IQ scale that finding useful work for will often be counter productive. The notion that there is something productive for everyone to do is erroneous. There will always be the Grind's of this world that are just not capable of doing productive work.

That's an unfortunate reality that has to be faced and managed.
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Wow, two paragraphs and you said nothing. Don't you have pizza to deliver?
 
Anyone who goes to college with the mindset that it is simply a stepping block to a better salary is making a mistake, in my opinion.

Higher education is about self-improvement, self-enlightenment, and freedom first and foremost. And it is not just limited to the classwork. Undoubtedly, the prospect of a career in a field of your choosing has to play some role. But there are many intangible benefits that come from a higher education, that cannot be boiled down to dollars, wages, and salaries. I have friends who graduated college and went on to work quasi-blue collar jobs, but I do not think they would consider their college experience a waste of time.

If we are talking about vocational work in the realm of carpentry, mechanics, electricians, that is work that should be honored and supported. Vocational training at community colleges should be free or subsidized. Labor unions should be strengthened. Labor rights should be rigourously protected in the face of the power of mutl-billion dollar international corporations who owe no loyalty to America.

Those are priorities that are advanced by liberals, and those priorities are generally an anathema to rightwingers in the same way vampires abhor sunlight.

In short, anyone who has spent a lifetime voting for anti-labor, anti-union, anti-college rightwing politicians, really have no business - none, nada, zilch - posting threads complaining about the decline of the blue collar middle class.
 
Cypress said:
Anyone who goes to college with the mindset that it is simply a stepping block to a better salary is making a mistake, in my opinion.

Higher education is about self-improvement, self-enlightenment, and freedom first and foremost. And it is not just limited to the classwork. Undoubtedly, the prospect of a career in a field of your choosing has to play some role. But there are many intangible benefits that come from a higher education, that cannot be boiled down to dollars, wages, and salaries. I have friends who graduated college and went on to work quasi-blue collar jobs, but I do not think they would consider their college experience a waste of time.

If we are talking about vocational work in the realm of carpentry, mechanics, electricians, that is work that should be honored and supported. Vocational training at community colleges should be free or subsidized. Labor unions should be strengthened. Labor rights should be rigourously protected in the face of the power of mutl-billion dollar international corporations who owe no loyalty to America.

Those are priorities that are advanced by liberals, and those priorities are generally an anathema to rightwingers in the same way vampires abhor sunlight.

In short, anyone who has spent a lifetime voting for anti-labor, anti-union, anti-college rightwing politicians, really have no business - none, nada, zilch - posting threads complaining about the decline of the blue collar middle class.
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I agree. When I was being groomed for college there was no talk about how much I would earn after graduation. It was all talk about self enlightment and personnel development.

Having said that todays asinine costs for a college education have taken that traditional view of a college education off the table for most people of middle and working class background. Your education has to be focused on career development and not personal development due to the cost.

That's sad because much of what is provided in a liberal arts education that makes life worth living is being lost as unafordable. That's a shame too.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I agree. When I was being groomed for college there was no talk about how much I would earn after graduation. It was all talk about self enlightment and personnel development.

Having said that todays asinine costs for a college education have taken that traditional view of a college education off the table for most people of middle and working class background. Your education has to be focused on career development and not personal development due to the cost.

That's sad because much of what is provided in a liberal arts education that makes life worth living is being lost as unafordable. That's a shame too.
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That is a good point. Our generation was able to go to college without being saddled with crippling debt.

A person of my generation could actually go to college and major in philosophy, English lit., or history, without the nagging doubt and stress of facing off against a seemingly insurmountable wall of 100k in debt.

If asked, I always tell people they should follow their dreams though, no matter how many parents and peers tell them they need to major in engineering, business, or accounting. You only get one shot in this life.
 
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