why would he?.....

Cypress said:
I agree that Muslims and Jews do not agree with the concept of the Trinity, which strikes Muslims in particular as vaguely polytheistic.

It even took Christians hundreds of years before they claimed the full divinity of Jesus. That was not even settled until the 5th century. And afterward Christian sects who emphasized Jesus' humanity over his divinity were harrassed and driven to the far reaches of Africa and Central Asia.

The bottom line is that historically, and to the present day, all Jews, Christians, and Muslims revere the God of Abraham, Moses, and Adam.
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Jews are allowed to pray in a mosques when not being used during Muslim services

praying in churches was completely and strictly forbidden to Jews. In fact, it is forbidden to step into a church

The Torah has many laws about avoiding anything involving "avoda zara" -- which we can translate, somewhat imprecisely, as idol worship.

Jews are allowed to enter mosques because Rambam (Maimonides) who lived in Muslim controlled countries including Egypt made a determination that Muslims and Jews believe in the same God. Jews are forbidden from walking into a bais avodah zorah, or house of idol worship. A mosque is certainly not a house of idol worship. Statues are not allowed in mosques.

There was no similar scholar who made such a determination about Christianity and Christian Churches. In the 12th century when Rambam lived, all churches famously had statutes that Christians bowed down to. There were no modern Christians like Evangelicals or even any Protestants yet. Statues are abhorrent to Jews. Further, Christianity itself has a questionable status. While it's not true idol worship according to anybody, there are aspects of it that are "idol worship like". The idea of the Trinity is difficult to categorize

As a result, many Torah scholars saw Christians no differently than their idol-worshiping Roman predecessors. While they knew there was a monotheistic belief in there somewhere, it was mixed in with practices that were quite foreign. The idea of bowing down to a man nailed to a cross or just a cross and a triune man god has the taste of idol worship.

The opportunity to demonstrate the monotheistic nature of Christianity has passed. We no longer have rabbis who would be willing or are qualified to make rulings such as the one made by Rambam.


Visiting A Church Or A Mosque

https://torah.org/torah-portion/weekly-halacha-5772-bo/
 
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guno said:
Jews are allowed to pray in a mosques when not being used during Muslim services

praying in churches was completely and strictly forbidden to Jews. In fact, it is forbidden to step into a church

The Torah has many laws about avoiding anything involving "avoda zara" -- which we can translate, somewhat imprecisely, as idol worship.

Jews are allowed to enter mosques because Rambam (Maimonides) who lived in Muslim controlled countries including Egypt made a determination that Muslims and Jews believe in the same God. Jews are forbidden from walking into a bais avodah zorah, or house of idol worship. A mosque is certainly not a house of idol worship. Statues are not allowed in mosques.

There was no similar scholar who made such a determination about Christianity and Christian Churches. In the 12th century when Rambam lived, all churches famously had statutes that Christians bowed down to. There were no modern Christians like Evangelicals or even any Protestants yet. Statues are abhorrent to Jews. Further, Christianity itself has a questionable status. While it's not true idol worship according to anybody, there are aspects of it that are "idol worship like". The idea of the Trinity is difficult to categorize

As a result, many Torah scholars saw Christians no differently than their idol-worshiping Roman predecessors. While they knew there was a monotheistic belief in there somewhere, it was mixed in with practices that were quite foreign. The idea of bowing down to a man nailed to a cross or just a cross and a triune man god has the taste of idol worship.

The opportunity to demonstrate the monotheistic nature of Christianity has passed. We no longer have rabbis who would be willing or are qualified to make rulings such as the one made by Rambam.


Visiting A Church Or A Mosque

https://torah.org/torah-portion/weekly-halacha-5772-bo/
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Historically, Jewish people seem to have generally fared better in Muslim lands than in the Christendom of medieval western Europe. Certainly Spanish Al Andalus is a prime example

I admit to having an abiding appreciation for the religious iconography of my Eastern Orthodox faith tradition, which I imagine strikes Jews and Muslims as idolatry and vaguely polytheistic.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no.....that is NOT the bottom line........the bottom line is that Christianity believes in a Triune God and Islam and Judaism do not........therefore it is ridiculous to claim they all believe in the same God......
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The fact that, according to Paul and the other apostles, God presented himself to humans as a Jewish peasant, does nothing to change the fact that the God of Abraham was the divine reality at the center of it all. The God of Abraham is the exact same deity revered by Christians, Jews, Muslims.

Pope Francis also asserts that Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same God.

I will take the word of the Pope, over the claims of a foul mouthed, obscure rightwing message board poster.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
moon started a thread about...


and the question becomes, why would God help the Muslim paleo-simians?.......that's Allah's job......
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Both are the same. Al Lah is just a variation of the Aramaic/Hebrew word "El Loh".

That's why in some English versions of Quran, many words are translated as "God".
 
Cypress said:
The fact that, according to Paul and the other apostles, God presented himself to humans as a Jewish peasant, does nothing to change the fact that the God of Abraham was the divine reality at the center of it all. The God of Abraham is the exact same deity revered by Christians, Jews, Muslims.

Pope Francis also asserts that Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same God.

I will take the word of the Pope, over the claims of a foul mouthed, obscure rightwing message board poster.
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Christians "God is a Trinity"
Muslims "Allah is NOT a Trinity"
Mindless JPP Fuckwits "Christians and Muslims believe the same thing"
case closed.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
Christians "God is a Trinity"
Muslims "Allah is NOT a Trinity"
Mindless JPP Fuckwits "Christians and Muslims believe the same thing"
case closed.......
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You are an obscure message board poster who has no standing as a theological expert.

Pope John Paul II says Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Pope John Paul understands theology about six thousand percent better than you.

today we will reflect on dialogue with Muslims, who together with us adore the one, merciful God

- Pope John Paul II

http://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/audiences/1999/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_05051999.html
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Cypress said:
You are an obscure message board poster who has no standing as a theological expert.

Pope John Paul II says Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Pope John Paul understands theology about six thousand percent better than you.
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I am a protestant, this won't be the first time one of us disagreed with a pope.....

meanwhile any one who tries to pretend that this is logical....
Christians "God is a Trinity"
Muslims "Allah is NOT a Trinity"
Mindless JPP Fuckwits "Christians and Muslims believe the same thing"

is obviously a mindless fuckwit......whether he's a pope or a JPP poster......
 
Cypress said:
You are an obscure message board poster who has no standing as a theological expert.

Pope John Paul II says Christians and Muslims worship the same God. Pope John Paul understands theology about six thousand percent better than you.
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PostmodernProphet said:
I am a protestant, this won't be the first time one of us disagreed with a pope.....

meanwhile any one who tries to pretend that this is logical....
Christians "God is a Trinity"
Muslims "Allah is NOT a Trinity"
Mindless JPP Fuckwits "Christians and Muslims believe the same thing"

is obviously a mindless fuckwit......whether he's a pope or a JPP poster......
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Correction: you are an obscure, foul-mouthed, angry Protestant with about one percent of the theological education and training as Pope John Paul II.
 
So the Catholic Church maintains that Islam and Christianity worship the same God....and here is a prominent Protestant theologian who also concludes the same thing

In his book Allah, Lutheran theologian Miroslav Volf helps us think theologically about Christianity’s relationship with Islam. Volf makes the case that based upon their sacred texts and the normative teachings of their traditions Christians and Muslims agree on six claims about God, and therefore worship the same God.

https://www.sainttimothys.com/rogers-blog/2017/1/18/do-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god
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PostmodernProphet said:
no......Allah is the arabic word for "god"..........many atheists think that God and Allah are one.....no one else does.....
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Flat out incorrect. Are you sure you actually have any education in religion and theology??

I just showed you in posts 28 and 31 that the Catholic Church and prominent Protestant theologians also think that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.
 
Cypress said:
Flat out incorrect. Are you sure you actually have any education in religion and theology??

I just showed you in posts 28 and 31 that the Catholic Church and prominent Protestant theologians also think that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.
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I, along with others, have caught this charlatan in some glaring errors for one who claims to have a Divinity Degree. I avoid exchanges with the foul mouth phoney.
 
Phantasmal said:
I, along with others, have caught this charlatan in some glaring errors for one who claims to have a Divinity Degree. I avoid exchanges with the foul mouth phoney.
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I cannot recall ever coming across such a foul mouthed self-styled Christian. Usually I mostly ignore this poster, she is actually super boring, not well spoken, never says anything remotely funny or entertaining
 
Cypress said:
Correction: you are an obscure, foul-mouthed, angry Protestant with about one percent of the theological education and training as Pope John Paul II.
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how much theological training does a person need to determine that "is not" does not equal "is"?.....
 
Cypress said:
So the Catholic Church maintains that Islam and Christianity worship the same God....and here is a prominent Protestant theologian who also concludes the same thing
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"is" does not equal "is not" regardless of how prominent a theologian you are.......Muslims may have derived their deity from the same historical roots as the Jews and Christians but what they say he is, is NOT the same......that is where you and the pope, and Volf have fucked up....
 
Cypress said:
Flat out incorrect. Are you sure you actually have any education in religion and theology??

I just showed you in posts 28 and 31 that the Catholic Church and prominent Protestant theologians also think that Muslims and Christians worship the same God.
Click to expand...

not only do I know more about theology, I know more about logic....because I can conclusively say that "is" does not equal "is not".......
 
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