APP - Woopsie! Health bill recalculation

tinfoil said:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gnysT9_pxMwvpDM2YjJZCyRe4EYQD9B5ROL00

Bwhahahaha Exactly what i said when I compared the health bill to the cluckers program. Poor estimates lead to drastic underfunding and eventually tax increases to clean up the mess. At least they pointed it out now before the idiots pass the bill
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Excerpt: "The Joint Committee on Taxation says drug companies, medical device manufacturers and insurers would pay $121 billion over 10 years as a result of taxes in the Senate Finance Committee bill." (END)

If I recall Obama said no new taxes for those earning under $250,000/yr. I don't think those entities mentioned fall in that earning bracket.
 
LOL I see your logic now. You folks impose a tax that you know will be passed onto consumers but since you're taxing business, it makes it OK.
Got it. I finally understand how you justify it.
 
tinfoil said:
LOL I see your logic now. You folks impose a tax that you know will be passed onto consumers but since you're taxing business, it makes it OK.
Got it. I finally understand how you justify it.
Click to expand...

Something is missing from the link. Which "fees" won't they be able to deduct from their income taxes? Has something been suggested that brings them into line with other industries?
How are taxes on earnings(income taxes) collected from consumers? Earnings(profits) are earnings(profits), it's a myth.
 
tinfoil said:
LOL I see your logic now. You folks impose a tax that you know will be passed onto consumers but since you're taxing business, it makes it OK.
Got it. I finally understand how you justify it.
Click to expand...

If we go by your logic then we shouldn't tax anyone.

Let's say we tax a TV actor. When negotiating their next contract they'll ask for more money to cover the additional taxes. The TV company will have to pay the actor more money so the company will charge the advertisers more. Then the advertisers will have to charge the consumer more. Do you suggest we not tax the earnings of TV actors?

The same goes down the line. If we don't tax all the "Joe the Plumbers" we could argue plumbing services would be cheaper.

Under our capitalist system people/companies charge as much as they can or, as the saying goes, as much as the market will bear. They will charge as much as they can whether or not they are paying taxes. I doubt CEOs think along the lines of "We could charge more for our product but because the government hasn't raised our taxes we'll pass the savings along to the consumer."

I always recall an article I read concerning the price of high octane gas. The reporter asked a petroleum company executive why "super" was 7 cents a liter more than "regular" when the cost to produce the high octane gas was only 3 cents more per liter. The executive replied, "What does cost have to do with the selling price?

Companies will charge as much as they can, regardless, and this is what's at the base of the utter failure of the "cut-taxes-on-the-wealthy-and-they'll-spend-more-money-and-create-more-jobs" philosophy.

People are greedy. Companies are greedy. The only way the government can help those in need is to collect the taxes and then help the individuals.

Companies will not give away money just because they saved money meaning companies will not keep prices low just because they don't get a tax increase. They will always, always, always charge as much as they can because the cost to produce something has little bearing on the selling price.
 
this just in
companies don't pay taxes...people pay taxes
companies pass tax costs onto consumers through the price of their products.
If you think companies pay income taxes, you need some schooling.

Now let's get to topic.

The estimate was off by over 20%
That was the point of the thread
 
tinfoil said:
this just in
companies don't pay taxes...people pay taxes
companies pass tax costs onto consumers through the price of their products.
If you think companies pay income taxes, you need some schooling.

Now let's get to topic.

The estimate was off by over 20%
That was the point of the thread
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What are the "fees" they can't deduct? Is there now a special ruling affecting healthcare companies only?
If your theory regarding charges to the consumer is correct, why didn't healthcare costs to the Public go down after healthcare companies' profits went up 420% in 9 years? Could it be those profits merely went into the pockets of the healthcare company executives and their boards?
Income taxes are a result of profit, that's a good thing, meanwhile most corporations pay far less proportionately than their individual citizen counterparts. Little or none of government largesse to corporations is passed to the consumer, while, at the same time, their executives are taking home hundreds of $millions or even $billions of company funds in their overblown compensation packages.
 
belme1201 said:
If your theory regarding charges to the consumer is correct, why didn't healthcare costs to the Public go down after healthcare companies' profits went up 420% in 9 years?
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Exactly!

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belme1201 said:
What are the "fees" they can't deduct? Is there now a special ruling affecting healthcare companies only?
If your theory regarding charges to the consumer is correct, why didn't healthcare costs to the Public go down after healthcare companies' profits went up 420% in 9 years? Could it be those profits merely went into the pockets of the healthcare company executives and their boards?
Income taxes are a result of profit, that's a good thing, meanwhile most corporations pay far less proportionately than their individual citizen counterparts. Little or none of government largesse to corporations is passed to the consumer, while, at the same time, their executives are taking home hundreds of $millions or even $billions of company funds in their overblown compensation packages.
Click to expand...
 
tinfoil said:
this just in
companies don't pay taxes...people pay taxes
companies pass tax costs onto consumers through the price of their products.
If you think companies pay income taxes, you need some schooling.

Now let's get to topic.

The estimate was off by over 20%
That was the point of the thread
Click to expand...

What a silly post. If you are going to say companies don't pay taxes then it's not companies that pass along tax costs.It's the people running the companies.

As for being off by only 20%, not bad considering no one could even figure out how to improve health care for the last fifty years.
 
If you are going to say companies don't pay taxes then it's not companies that pass along tax costs.It's the people running the companies.

Duhhhh. yes moron, people run and own companies. They pay income taxes on profits. But taxes on services and products built into prices by government are --here's the important part-- BUILT INTO THE COSTS OF THE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES.

Income taxes are not the same thing. This is where your puny brain keeps getting lost.
 
belme1201 said:
What are the "fees" they can't deduct? Is there now a special ruling affecting healthcare companies only?
If your theory regarding charges to the consumer is correct, why didn't healthcare costs to the Public go down after healthcare companies' profits went up 420% in 9 years? Could it be those profits merely went into the pockets of the healthcare company executives and their boards?
Income taxes are a result of profit, that's a good thing, meanwhile most corporations pay far less proportionately than their individual citizen counterparts. Little or none of government largesse to corporations is passed to the consumer, while, at the same time, their executives are taking home hundreds of $millions or even $billions of company funds in their overblown compensation packages.
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if their CEOs are taking home millions, they pay income tax on those millions.

You fail
go take an introductory tax course so you have some clues abouit how taxes are levied.
 
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tinfoil said:
If you are going to say companies don't pay taxes then it's not companies that pass along tax costs.It's the people running the companies.

Duhhhh. yes moron, people run and own companies. They pay income taxes on profits. But taxes on services and products built into prices by government are --here's the important part-- BUILT INTO THE COSTS OF THE PRODUCTS AND SERVICES.

Income taxes are not the same thing. This is where your puny brain keeps getting lost.
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Of course the cost in built in.

Where you get lost is the government needs tax dollars for programs. The government has to get money. Plain and simple. Following me so far?

So, the government (yes, people) look at companies/products and see an outrageous markup. They see that consumers (again, people) are paying X-dollars for a certain product(s) and the company (yes, again, people) are making a huge profit.

Let's use an analogy. I'll keep it simple for you. ABC is selling widgets for $10.00. The actual cost to produce those widgets is $2.00. The government decides to tax some process involved in making those widgets so the cost rises to $3.00/widget.

The company has two choices. It can raise prices to cover the increased cost or it can absorb the cost. We know by the profit margin that the company can absorb that cost and still be viable. What will the company (yes, people) do?

Here comes the punch line. The $10.00 the company is currently charging is the most consumers will pay for widgets. How do we know? We know because companies always, always, always charge the most they can. So, they have a choice. Do they keep prices the same and absorb the costs which they are capable of doing or do they try to pass the costs along and find out people have stopped buying their product because it's too expensive?

If the world worked according to your illogical reasoning no company (people) would complain about costs being built in because they'd simply pass the cost along to the consumer (a different group of people). Why would they care? :chesh:
 
tinfoil said:
LOL I see your logic now. You folks impose a tax that you know will be passed onto consumers but since you're taxing business, it makes it OK.
Got it. I finally understand how you justify it.
Click to expand...

The left are living in fantasyland in their desperation to find money for their healthcare plan.

According to Politico, it’s not just companies that make big-ticket items like MRIs and pacemakers that will get hit with the fee, but any company that makes a medical product regulated by the Food and Drug Administration.

So everything in an emergency room, from the defibrillator to the bandages, and many of the things you’d find in a drugstore home pregnancy tests to toothbrushes are medical products that could come under the fee.

A medical products tax will only increase the costs and will be passed on to the consumer.

It's insane.

​
 
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tinfoil said:
if their CEOs are taking home millions, they pay income tax on those millions.

You fail, idiot.
go take an introductory tax course so you have some clues abouit how taxes are levied.
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That's all you could add was a 'DUH' reply regarding outrageous executive salaries while others can't afford their product and some are dying as a result?

Thank you, any ill word from the likes of you is a compliment. I've asked you before to tell about the extent of your oft self proclaimed education.....if you have one.
 
tinfoil said:
total fucking idiots can't even understand the argument.
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Because your argument is nonsensical.

Governments tax things that make money. Goods. Companies. People. Just like certain places have a hotel room sur-tax. We still see specials on hotel rooms. Why? Why isn't every hotel room 10% or 15% higher? Why, because people won't stay there so the hotels put certain rooms on special to bring the customers. The government knows hotel companies make money. Lots of money.

While every customer pays the tax the base price is lowered meaning the hotel company absorbs the tax. If the regular price of the room is $100/night with a 15% sur-tax and the hotel drops the regular price to $87/night plus 15% the customer still pays $100/night. Well, plus 5 cents if you want to get picky.

If businesses/companies/people based their selling price on the cost to produce an item/provide a service your argument would have credence but that's not the way it works.

Last two points. As for suggesting others require schooling I submit it is you who requires additional education. Second, the reason people can't understand your argument is because your argument doesn't make any sense.
 
If businesses/companies/people based their selling price on the cost to produce an item/provide a service your argument would have credence but that's not the way it works.
 
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tinfoil said:
If businesses/companies/people based their selling price on the cost to produce an item/provide a service your argument would have credence but that's not the way it works.
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That was quite a rebuttal.

Be sure to remain seated on the short bus till you get home.
 
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Another "re-calculation".
CBO calculation of the Senate Healthcare bill:
Cost over ten years? More than 20% less than the Iraq War.
Effect on US deficit? A reduction of $81 billion! (More than any GOP bill of any kind ever.)
Total coverage? Increased to 94% of the US population.
Is there anybody out there willing to say Iraq was worth more than a healthcare bill?
 
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belme1201 said:
Another "re-calculation".
CBO calculation of the Senate Healthcare bill:
Cost over ten years? More than 20% less than the Iraq War.
Effect on US deficit? A reduction of $81 billion! (More than any GOP bill ever.)
Total coverage? Increased to 94% of the US population.
Is there anybody out there willing to say Iraq was worth more than a healthcare bill?
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This bill is a fantasy as presented. It ain't gonna happen.
 
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