To cover just 4% more of the US? Yes, Iraq was a waste of cash, but that doesn't change that this is even more of a waste of cash.
APP - Woopsie! Health bill recalculation
- Thread starter tinfoil
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zappasguitar
Well-known member
I gotta say your points had me sold until I read all the names ol tinpants called you and after that I just had to give the debate to him. When you get right down to it, his namecalling proved he's put much more thought into his arguments than you had.
CBO says 30 million more Americans, or 94%, will be covered, 9-11% more than now.
The cost is far less than the cost of Iraq($10 billion less in 10 years than Iraq in 6) but you still consider that "more of a waste of cash", even when contributing to a deficit reduction.
I'm going to have the laugh of a lifetime when corporations start exporting jobs or dropping out of healthcare plans(more than now) because they're too expensive and those opposed today will be wondering what the hell happened.
"Just say no."
Let me add, this is not the bill I would have wanted but it's better than nothing and certainly better than the GOP plan which is as follows:
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I'm going to laugh when corps start paying the 8% on employees and lets the employees deal with getting their own insurance. You guys are forgetting once you make it mandatory, business will stop providing it. The burden will have been shifted. Right now they give it to you because it reduces tax liabilities and because it's become a part of the pay scale. Once they realize you have to get it for yourself, they may just put you in check and force you to make the first move.
Laugh all you want. I bet you'll be reading all about how the mandate didn't work out like expected.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
I had lunch with a small businessman earlier and he told me Obama's plan scares the hell out of him.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
I love how you demand we answer your questions, yet you rarely answer ours.
Since the Iraq war wasn't well planned, yes, I would say most of it was a waste. The Obamacare plan is an even bigger waste.
apple0154
MEOW
apple0154
MEOW
US jobs are being exported every day because corporations can save not only on employee salaries but also on their healthcare. 8% is a saving on the cost they pay now and with the current runaway healthcare inflation it will only get worse. We are already paying, by one means or another, more for healthcare than any coountry on earth. You talk about costs being added into the price of a product, isn't healthcare included? If it is, how can GM or Ford compete with Honda, Hyundai, or VW, etc. who don't have that cost built into their cars? It has to come from either an inferior product or a higher price, thus eliminating the ability to compete.
Yes. I will laugh at the irony of a healthcare calamity because change won't come until the naysayers feel it in their pocketbooks and lost elections.
But the Senate plan reduces the deficit, increases coverage to citizens and costs far less than Iraq. Your reason for opposing it?
We already pay far more for healthcare than any country in the world, it's time to get it under control.
Don't fall for it! It's the old "I need to be consoled" pick-up line.
It's the old horizontal sympathy ploy.
I had lunch with the Dalai Lama, he supports it fully and fears nothing.
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TuTu Monroe
A Realist
The CBO said this was just a preliminary and he would have to study it more thoroughly. What do you propose we do with the 25 -27 million, not including the illegals, who will have no coverage?
I don't believe the 6% remaining uncovered amounts to that many, all I do know is that the 94% CBO says will be covered is the highest of any plan yet. What is the % covered in the Republican plan?
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Drastic underfunding? Did you read the article you posted? It says that the taxes take more than what was estimated.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
A tax on those making more than 250k means they spend less in business; which means business gets less revenue and has to raise prices on other consumers in response. I guess if you define your bad thing as "tax raise or has any effect whatsoever on those making below 250k" your logic would work, and all tax raises would be prohibited. But that's not what Obama promised.
TuTu Monroe
A Realist
Yeah, there are 5 different plans, so maybe next year or so we will find out.
I can see why the CBO said it would be deficit neutral. The VAT, which is just a national sales tax and added on to sales taxes, will bring in the money, but it's going to be a disaster for the middle class and the poor.
Looks like Joe Wilson was right when he called Obama a liar. The Constitution says that if the government gives benefits to some, it must give to all and that means anyone who is here, including illegals. Good job Democrats.
Currently about 90% of Americans are covered when you remove the numbers that were "uncovered" but are now covered, CBO says 94% will be covered. That's a massive 4% increase for nearly a trillion dollars. We can and should do better than that, by a long shot. This is absolutely unsatisfactory.
The plan we are talking about is the Senate Finance Committee plan scored by the CBO yesterday. VAT has nothing to do with it and the plan is budget POSITIVE by $81 billion. You queried regarding the 6% of the population still uncovered and I replied. Since you don't favor this plan, I was wondering the % of citizens uncovered in the GOP plan. Call me inquisitive because if so much is scored positive about this bill and you and yours still oppose it, I might be inclined to support the GOP bill you and yours do support. Has it been scored yet by the CBO? What are the details. Does it cover even more than the % covered in the Senate bill which you are so concerned about?
The plan we are talking about is the Senate Finance Committee plan scored by the CBO yesterday. VAT has nothing to do with it and the plan is budget POSITIVE by $81 billion. You queried regarding the 6% of the population still uncovered and I replied. Since you don't favor this plan, I was wondering the % of citizens uncovered in the GOP plan. Call me inquisitive because if so much is scored positive about this bill and you and yours still oppose it, I might be inclined to support the GOP bill you and yours do support. Has it been scored yet by the CBO? What are the details? Certainly it must cover even more than the % covered in the Senate bill about which you are so concerned? I'm truly inquisitive.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Hopefully it gets passed as soon as possible.
Sort of.
The VAT wasn't a part of the proposal.
That's a creative interpretation if there is one. It isn't how the current federal government operates though.
You're welcome. Hopefully one day their will be a cure for your conservatism (besides the rather blunt solutions I've been known to advocate in the past), but until then you'll have to live under constant delusion.