Would You Dismantle the Underground Railroad?

A

artichoke

Verified User
Thought Experiment: You are able to go back in time, if you choose to, but only to one specific point to do one specific thing and immediately return. That specific action is to prevent the Underground Railroad from ever happening. Since the Underground Railroad served as a pressure valve, releasing the most bold, daring, and physically fit slaves at a steady pace, rather than letting them brood and eventually explode with violence and slave revolts against their masters...if you had the chance, would you undo it and let the slaves liberate themselves violently?

Keep in mind, this could result in the slaughter of millions of Southerners, the annihilation of the slave population, or something in between.
 
A 'Slave Revolt' might have been a better option than 'White People Giving Blacks Freedom' option.
It's probably better to let a group 'win' their own fight than having someone else hand it to them.
In WW2, the Allies let DeGaulle ride into Paris. Kuwaitis were allowed First Entry into Kuwait after the Americans liberated it from Saddam.

So, ... here's the deal. Blacks revolt in the South under the Confederate Battle Flag. They fight all the famous battles. They enter Washington DC, thousands strong, and Demand Freedom. The US surrenders to the Demands. Statues of Leaders of the Revolt are erected. Laws are Passed. Sacred Cemeteries to the Fallen are created. Songs are Sung, Stories are Told.
 
Jack said:
A 'Slave Revolt' might have been a better option than 'White People Giving Blacks Freedom' option.
It's probably better to let a group 'win' their own fight than having someone else hand it to them.
In WW2, the Allies let DeGaulle ride into Paris. Kuwaitis were allowed First Entry into Kuwait after the Americans liberated it from Saddam.

So, ... here's the deal. Blacks revolt in the South under the Confederate Battle Flag. They fight all the famous battles. They enter Washington DC, thousands strong, and Demand Freedom. The US surrenders to the Demands. Statues of Leaders of the Revolt are erected. Laws are Passed. Sacred Cemeteries to the Fallen are created. Songs are Sung, Stories are Told.
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So... you would be okay with letting them stay enslaved longer if it meant them getting to be the ones who pulled the trigger on their liberation?
 
Arminius said:


So... you would be okay with letting them stay enslaved longer if it meant them getting to be the ones who pulled the trigger on their liberation?
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Well, you broached the Topic of 'What if ... '

Haitian Slaves revolted against their Owners. I'm sure it gave them self esteem. You know, Masters of their Destiny.


"Haitian Revolution
The Haitian Revolution was a successful insurrection by self-liberated slaves against French colonial rule in Saint-Domingue, now the sovereign state of Haiti. The revolt began on 22 August 1791, and ended in 1804 with the former colony's independence.Wikipedia"
 
Jack said:
Well, you broached the Topic of 'What if ... '

Haitian Slaves revolted against their Owners. I'm sure it gave them self esteem. You know, Masters of their Destiny.


"Haitian Revolution
The Haitian Revolution was a successful insurrection by self-liberated slaves against French colonial rule in Saint-Domingue, now the sovereign state of Haiti. The revolt began on 22 August 1791, and ended in 1804 with the former colony's independence.Wikipedia"
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Well yeah, I brought it up, but I'm just making sure that you're saying you would be okay with keeping black slaves enslaved longer than they otherwise would have been for worthwhile extraneous outcomes.
 
Arminius said:


Well yeah, I brought it up, but I'm just making sure that you're saying you would be okay with keeping black slaves enslaved longer than they otherwise would have been for worthwhile extraneous outcomes.
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Well, let me counter you with: Which is better, being enslaved in Africa or being enslaved in America?

"“Slavery in the United States ended in 1865,” says Greene, “but in West Africa it was not legally ended until 1875, and then it stretched on unofficially until almost World War I. "
https://research.cornell.edu/news-features/curious-history-slavery-west-africa
 
Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Well, you broached the Topic of 'What if ... '

Haitian Slaves revolted against their Owners. I'm sure it gave them self esteem. You know, Masters of their Destiny.


"Haitian Revolution
The Haitian Revolution was a successful insurrection by self-liberated slaves against French colonial rule in Saint-Domingue, now the sovereign state of Haiti. The revolt began on 22 August 1791, and ended in 1804 with the former colony's independence.Wikipedia"
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Haiti is a success?.......
 
Yakuda said:
Yes that's exactly what that racist cunt is saying.
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Just checking, because I routinely get hysterically vilified for suggesting that 650k Americans didn't need to die so Northern leftists could illegally invade, slaughter, and enslave half the republic...all to liberate the slaves (who were already being gradually freed) slightly more quickly. I think that's a pretty compelling reason to leave someone enslaved slightly longer, but leftists lose their minds when I say that. Just wanted to make sure I am understanding this correctly that I have a leftist now on the record saying they would leave them enslaved as well under the right circumstances.

:laugh:
 
Jack said:
Well, let me counter you with: Which is better, being enslaved in Africa or being enslaved in America?

"“Slavery in the United States ended in 1865,” says Greene, “but in West Africa it was not legally ended until 1875, and then it stretched on unofficially until almost World War I. "
https://research.cornell.edu/news-features/curious-history-slavery-west-africa
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All slavery is an abomination, so it doesn't matter that they were much better off having been slaves here. Slavery is monstrous either way. I just don't accept that we have to be ridiculous unthinking children about how it should have been abolished, like Northern leftists were, and like leftists today still are.
 
Arminius said:


Just checking, because I routinely get hysterically vilified for suggesting that 650k Americans didn't need to die so Northern leftists could illegally invade, slaughter, and enslave half the republic...all to liberate the slaves (who were already being gradually freed) slightly more quickly. I think that's a pretty compelling reason to leave someone enslaved slightly longer, but leftists lose their minds when I say that. Just wanted to make sure I am understanding this correctly that I have a leftist now on the record saying they would leave them enslaved as well under the right circumstances.

:laugh:
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The left never has, does not now, nor will they ever actually care about people. They care only about power. That's what matters to these retarded cunts.
 
Yakuda said:
The left never has, does not now, nor will they ever actually care about people. They care only about power. That's what matters to these retarded cunts.
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200.webp


100%. Most dead-on statement of the day. :hand:
 
Arminius said:


All slavery is an abomination, so it doesn't matter that they were much better off having been slaves here. Slavery is monstrous either way. I just don't accept that we have to be ridiculous unthinking children about how it should have been abolished, like Northern leftists were, and like leftists today still are.
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'Slavery' was practiced all over the world. It's in the Bible. It's in the Code of Hammurabi. Ever heard of Spartacus? 6,000 Slaves crucified on the way to Rome? I doubt 6,000 Slaves were crucified here in the US.


"Code of Hammurabi
The Code of Hammurabi is a Babylonian legal text composed c. 1755–1750 BC. It is the longest, best-organised, and best-preserved legal text from the ancient Near East. It is written in the Old Babylonian dialect of Akkadian, purportedly by Hammurabi, sixth king of the First Dynasty of Babylon.Wikipedia"
 
Jack said:
'Slavery' was practiced all over the world. It's in the Bible. It's in the Code of Hammurabi. Ever heard of Spartacus? 6,000 Slaves crucified on the way to Rome? I doubt 6,000 Slaves were crucified here in the US.


"Code of Hammurabi
The Code of Hammurabi is a Babylonian legal text composed c. 1755–1750 BC. It is the longest, best-organised, and best-preserved legal text from the ancient Near East. It is written in the Old Babylonian dialect of Akkadian, purportedly by Hammurabi, sixth king of the First Dynasty of Babylon.Wikipedia"
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Of course. :nodyes:

Until white Europeans came along and ended it. :cool:
 
Not worth the bother. Slavery as an institution would have died out on its own from both social pressure and technological advancement.

Jack brings up Haiti. The slave revolt there pretty much ensured that the country would remain an impoverished train wreck of a society. Sure the slaves won, but those they overthrew left with their wealth and intellect leaving the slaves diddly squat to work with. Then those same slave owners who had means colluded with various governments and powers-that-be of the time to refuse any sort of help to the now slave run nation of Haiti.

This scenario also presupposes that other alternatives weren't available like the gullah maroon towns on the outer banks of the Hatteras were slaves escaped and lived, or to southern Florida.

To end slavery you need an alternative that's profitable to those invested in slavery. That alternative is more technology. Slavery was only profitable if you needed lots of low cost workers and there was no alternative mechanized means to replace them.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Not worth the bother. Slavery as an institution would have died out on its own from both social pressure and technological advancement.

Jack brings up Haiti. The slave revolt there pretty much ensured that the country would remain an impoverished train wreck of a society. Sure the slaves won, but those they overthrew left with their wealth and intellect leaving the slaves diddly squat to work with. Then those same slave owners who had means colluded with various governments and powers-that-be of the time to refuse any sort of help to the now slave run nation of Haiti.

This scenario also presupposes that other alternatives weren't available like the gullah maroon towns on the outer banks of the Hatteras were slaves escaped and lived, or to southern Florida.

To end slavery you need an alternative that's profitable to those invested in slavery. That alternative is more technology. Slavery was only profitable if you needed lots of low cost workers and there was no alternative mechanized means to replace them.
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And importation was already banned, and it was already universally condemned and being phased out all over the world. 650k Americans did not need to die just so Northern leftists could act like in-your-face psychos and force us to be the only country in the Western Hemisphere that had to go to war over it. Leftists are a plague on humanity.
 
Arminius said:
Thought Experiment: You are able to go back in time, if you choose to, but only to one specific point to do one specific thing and immediately return. That specific action is to prevent the Underground Railroad from ever happening. Since the Underground Railroad served as a pressure valve, releasing the most bold, daring, and physically fit slaves at a steady pace, rather than letting them brood and eventually explode with violence and slave revolts against their masters...if you had the chance, would you undo it and let the slaves liberate themselves violently?
Click to expand...

Let's start with the non-hypothetical part of it all. There was an Underground Railroad, and about a hundred thousand out of nearly four million slaves escaped. That created a large pressure point as a hundred thousand people proved they were good people who had been persecuted by the slaveholders. This made it more and more difficult for slavery to exist in a free nation. Without them, slavery never would have ended. That is why the Southern states were so hardcore against states rights when it came to states rights to allow people to be free.

You might be right, and maybe the Underground Railroad did lesson the violence. As bad as the Civil War was, the slave uprisings were far more bloody (within the areas they happened). The slaves often killed most whites they got a hold of, and usually all slaves were killed whether they had participated or not. Even slaves who fought for their masters were often killed, just to be safe. It was becoming a genocidal war.
 
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